I am 26 and I have depression. Already had a surgery, but still have a III class malocclusion. Need to redo everything from scratch. So many wasted years.

I'm 25. Born with a tongue tie, undiagnosed. Mouthbreather as a child. Went through orthodontic treatment at 10 years old which included headgear, pulling my maxilla down and back, then braces for several years and a retainer for another decade. For 15 years I've had UARS and all the symptoms that come with it. Fatigue, anxiety, panic attacks. Always was tall and lanky with awful posture, back pains and scoliosis. Very introverted and uncomfortable around others.

A few years ago I tried making a change in my life. I became very ambitious with career, fitness, got my own place and a girlfriend. After putting on a solid 25 pounds in the gym, my airway narrowed further and I crashed. I stopped sleeping, my anxiety went through the roof, I became reactive to the slightest sound. All sorts of digestive problems, killer headaches, chronic fatigue, and myalgia (muscle pains). I broke up with my girlfriend, left work and moved back home. I lost 35 pounds. I've stopped socializing with friends - no one understands what I've been through, not even remotely.

It took over half a year to figure out what the hell was wrong with me. The doctors didn't care, they kept pushing pills. My family thought I was depressed (at best) or making the whole thing up. No one understood or cared.

God, it has been a long road. I'm doing expansion now with tongue tie release and hoping it will push me over the edge. But looking back at my life, it feels like such a waste. So much I missed out on, so much needless suffering. My most formative years defined by the effects of poor craniofacial development. I couldn't have known about tongue posture or headgear at 10 years old. I feel like I never had a chance.

There are some positives though. It was a stark reminder that life is short, that I need to start living to the fullest. That I am my own best advocate, not to trust anyone blindly, to pursue health and happiness for myself and others. Everyone suffers in their own way. For some it is more acute than others, but everyone suffers. I don't know about God and any I don't know about any meaning to all this, but I do know that it's up to us what we do with it. There is a certain gift in tragedy, and you can use it for good if you adopt the right mindset. We are still young, we can do great things and live rich, fulfilling lives. Just keep your head up and keep pushing. Brighter days are ahead!

@pizzaman500 Thank you for sharing your experience. How are you dealing with the past? I am struggling in accepting that I have wasted so many years... I cannot accept it for now... It's really painful.

I'm in a similar situation vis-a-vis having already had an operation, but still have class III.  See my latest thread:  https://wholebodybreathing.com/community/community/case-discussions/probably-need-another-double-jaw-surgery-cephalogram-attached/

@mr_man Thank you for your post. How are you dealing with it? Are you doing an orthodontic treatment now? Will you do another surgery to correct the III class?

@tony721

I never really thought about it emotionally (though of course it kind of sucks if I think about it).

I'm still exploring orthodontic and maxillofacial options, but there's about 50% chance I'll do the surgery, which involves orthodontics as well.  For now, as I mentioned in the other thread, I'm doing my own "orthodontics", which involves an acrylic expander and reverse headgear w/ elastics, for protraction purposes.  It seems to be working, although very slowly.

I was thinking, when you had your first operation, did they use a bone graft?  In my case, they did, using parietal (skull) bone, which left a scar in my scalp.  It shows if my hair is short.  The place I'm working with now said that they would use allograft if they need to do a graft in the next operation, which is easier than having to harvest bone from one's own body.

Also, did you achieve any anterior maxillary repositioning at all?  I did in my case (maybe 6 mm).  I also had maybe 8 mm of transverse maxillary expansion as well.  It wasn't enough, of course, but I'd still rather have the improvement that my first operation got me, even though, as in your case, they'd have to remove the plates and screws before doing another operation.

@mr_man No, they didn't use bone graft during the surgery. They performed an advancement of the upper jaw and moved the lower jaw a bit forward too (I really didn't understand why they did it).

I can surely state that they didn't plan anything at all. The orthodontists and the other surgeons to whom I went to after the surgery confirmed my suspicions. They didn't leave a gap for the orthodontist in order allow them to move the teeth in the correct position, and now my upper and lower teeth collide and are not properly inclined (the upper are still protruding forward while the lower are still inclined backwards as I didn't do the orthodontic pretreatment).

The most irritating thing is that if I would have known that the results are so poor I would have never accepted this Surgery-First operation, I asked the surgeon "Is it going to be the same as with the traditional protocol which involves an orthodontic pretreatment?" and he replied "Yes, yes, absolutely". Yeah, he is a real jerk, I should have known it before accepting the surgery with him.

My takeaway is "DON'T TRUST ANYONE, EVEN DOCTORS/SURGEONS, ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK AND DON'T PAY THEM ALL THE MONEY EITHER UNTIL YOU ARE SATISFIED WITH THE RESULTS OR UNLESS THEY GIVE YOU WRITTEN GUARANTEES OF WHAT THEY PLAN TO DO WITH YOU AND YOU AGREE WITH IT".
I think that we, the patients, have a bad habit to act like victims or miserable people who are desperate and need help from these surgeons, but, it's worth seeing it in another way: WE ARE THE CUSTOMERS AND THESE SURGEONS MAKE A LIVING BECAUSE OF US, SO IF THEY WANT MAKE A LIVING IT IS BETTER FOR THEM TO DO THEIR JOB BOTH ETHICALLY AND AS WELL AS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE SOMEONE WHO DECIDES TO GO FOR A SURGERY WANTS TO DO IT ONCE, NOT TWICE. OTHERWISE, THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE PAYED AT ALL, AND THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN DO THIS KIND OF JOB.

@mr_man Please, see my answer above, I think it answers your question. Thank you for sharing your experience with me, let me know how your treatment goes.

@tony721 The past isn't real. It doesn't matter what happened because for better or for worse, it's long gone and it's entirely up to us what effect it has. Some lessons I've learned I want to carry forward. Other things I'd rather forget. That's easier said than done of course but you must remember that the past only owns you if you let it.

We're in our mid-20s. Yes, CFD has had a horrible effect on our lives and we're still dealing with the consequences. But do you know how many people dream of being in our shoes? Once we eventually resolve these problems, how rich and free our lives can be? Do you want a family and kids and great friends and experiences? Do you want to have fun and make a difference in the world? You can still do all of it. You still have your life ahead of you.

@pizzaman500 Thank you for your post. I agree with what you are saying. The thing is, right now I also don't have a girlfriend (it's been many years already since I broke up with my ex) and this also upsets me, as whenever I am "rejected" by someone I blame it on my III class... BTW, what do you mean by CFD? 

@tony721

I would say that if your class III results in an anterior edge-to-edge bite (even with proclined and retroclined incisors), then it's not too severe.

Also, I've always been under the impression that having a class III, for a male, is not quite as bad (looks-wise) as a class II bite, due to class IIIs generally having a more masculine-looking lower jaw.  Just my perception; make of it what you will.

@tony721 CFD stands for craniofacial dystrophy. Don't worry about the girlfriend - the right one will come along when you are ready. I haven't spoken to a girl since my breakup last year, the only thing on my mind has been getting my health on track. I'm getting closer every day.

@pizzaman500 and @mr_man, thank you for your solace and encouragement guys! That kinda helps. I will write here when I have some news regarding my situation. Let me know yours also!

@tony721 Hello, in new here, Tony Is there a way for me to talk to you in private? My problem was similar to yours and i want to help you as much as i can.

My email Is [email protected], i Will probably get back to you on saturday (im a bit busy during the week) 

@newshadez

Thank you Newhadez, yes, I wrote you an email.

I am very sorry for you, but I am proud that you realized everything by yourself and ask for help. I also experienced such depression, due to a lot of work, obligations, etc. I asked for help too, and some of my friends recommended me to buy kratom. I began to apply it, and there was a feeling around me that I was as confident as possible in the future. I started to think more optimistically, and my health is really starting to recover! This is one of the most popular herbs that experts recommend for various ailments, due to its excellent medicinal properties. It actually undoubtedly helped me to deal with this problem.

@amyclarkson

Thank you for your post AmyClarkson! What was your problem? I didn't know about kratom. Which kind of herb is it? How do you take it? I saw on the website you linked that it comes in powder. Do you prepare smoothies or add it somewhere as a supplement to your diet? Which properties does it have?

Guys, I have an update regarding my situation.

Last week I was operated. They removed the metal plates and screws in my maxilla and mandible.
One screw was too much fused with the bone and they couldn't remove it completely.

Right now I am recovering from this intervention and then I'm gonna start the orthodontic pre-treatment in preparation for the next surgery.

Thank you all for your support and for sharing your own experience here! As I have already written before, it really kinda helps.
I will write further updates as soon as I have any.

@tony721

Good to hear that you're moving forward with the next operation!

Out of curiosity, was the partially-remaining screw in the maxilla or mandible?

@mr_man

Thank you! The partially-remaining screw is in the left side of the mandible. What about you? How are you doing?

@tony721

First they (doctors) want me to go to periodontist to make sure my gums/bone are ok to get braces.  Then they want to do the same thing you did, which is to get rid of existing plates/screws before continuing.  Will go to periodontist very soon

@mr_man

Good to hear that you are moving on with your treatment too. Let me know how it goes! I will post updates here as well.

@tony721

After seeing the periodontist, I see that I cannot upright my lower incisors since the bone is too thin.  I'm still going to pursue other options that won't require orthodontics (at least not for the lower teeth)

@mr_man 

OK, let me know when you have any news! I will post mine as well.

@tony721 Hey tony! Sad to hear that. I got a similar story although mine isn't so severe as you.

When I was about 20 years old, my lungs started to collapse. They collapsed about 4 times in one year and then the doctors decided to spray something in between my ribs and my lungs so it would kind of irritate and fuse together so that my lungs just wouldn't been able to collapsed anymore even if my lungs wanted to. The year after, I felt my lungs wanting to collapse multiple times and the frequency of it would be higher and higher when time went on.

When in the end my lungs almost tried to collapse nearly every week. On top of that, I had an event where a lot of pictures where taken of me and I noticed that something must be terribly wrong with my face. I kind of looked somewhat handicapped in my face. This was when I started researching on my own. I figured some habit that I'm doing must be the cause of this. There is no way a healthy human body decides to collapse his lungs every week. Remember that I had about 5 different highly educated lung doctors and not one of told me to stop breathing through my mouth.

After a lot of research, I figured mouth breathing was the cause. It wasn't only the cause of my lungs collapsing, but also the cause that my face is a lot longer and uglier than my brother (very recessed chin and maxilla). The cause of my chronic running nose, being tired all the time, .... I've also had orthodontics which pulled my maxilla back a bit.

Anyway, I've now stopped consciously mouth breathing for about 1 year now. I haven't felt my lungs collapse in over 5 months now! I still have to put conscious effort into breathing through my mouth every single day and it gets easier and easier every week. Also my jaw has swung up a little bit but at this pace, it'll still take about 6 years before I got a normal face.

If only my parents knew mouth breathing was so bad and made me quit. My face would have looked massively better and due to that alone, my life would have been totally different. It's sad I know so much useless suffering, but at least I now know and it's improving my face very slowly, but I got hope for when I turn 30. If I keep this massive effort up, I'll most likely look a lot better, probably still recessed but better in about 5 years.

@opperkech69 Wow, Opperkech69! How did you stop mouth breathing? Doctors told me that III class underbites are also caused by mouth breathing, especially if you breathe through your mouth during the night when you sleep.

Let me know cause this is an interesting topic even for other people, I guess.

Also, let me know how it goes!

I wish you good luck and the best! Thank you for sharing your experience.

@tony721 First weeks that I stopped mouth breathing (I also started mewing at that point) I was immensely obsessed with it. I stopped doing anything for university and spend two weeks straights on reading every single thing I could found about mouth breathing/mewing. Most, if not all, my tongue would be hurting every single day due to the fact that I was trying to reposition my tongue so much on the palate. My palate was way to narrow so I had to really squeeze it in there.

About the nasal breathing part. At first it didn't feel good at all. I could breathe through my nose while seated behind my desk but it took conscious effort since my nose wasn't open, walking while nasal breathing was nearly impossible and was very very uncomfortable. But I just kept at it, a few days later my nasal airways opened up a bit and breathing while seated was easier. Walking is till this day still not easy for me a lot of the times, it is very uncomfortable but I must say that it has gotten a lot easier than a year earlier.

I also started tapping my mouth before I went to bed. The first week, 6 out of 7 days, I had ripped the tape off unconsciously during the night. However I started doing it less and less and when I tape my mouth now, 80% of the time, it stays on there.

Now I'm starting to try to transition to nasal breathing at night without tape. The biggest problem I have, I think, is that my muscles around my mouth are underdeveloped or not used to being closed at night. Taping just made it impossible to breath through my mouth but did not reinforce the muscles needed to keep it shut. While taping my mouth, my teeth did not touch each other while I believe they should. My teeth are in a open position while my mouth is "closed" due to the tape. My mouth still falls open automatically unless I focus on it at night, especially during the morning it's hard.

Now I can feel that if I don't use tape, I sleep about 40% with a closed mouth as it should. I know this due to the fact that it feels like my jaw muscles have been engaged during the night. The nights I mouth breath, they haven't. I also unconsciously nose breath now when I'm seated and while walking although my body tends to go in mouth breath mode when I'm walking with more effort (example with a heavy grocery bag) but when this happens, I now immediately notice it and fight it which is still very very uncomfortable.

I believe upswing of the maxilla goes hand in hand with correct breathing. At this point, my maxilla is just to recessed to be able to comfortable mouth breath.

Conclusion: After one year, my palate has widened immensely. (My tongue now easily fits), my chin and maxilla have swung up a bit and nasal breathing is my natural form while seated but I still got a long way to go during night. However I'm hopeful for the next years to come. I sometimes literally want to cry when I'm fighting my urges to mouth breath, it is so unfair but then I remember that if I keep this up, at least in 5 years I'll know that I've gave it my all. I have made solid progress though in the last year!

@tony721 You're putting in some concious effort about your condition?

I know it's been a while since you posted this, but I wanted to reach out and offer my support. Dealing with depression and malocclusion can be tough, and I can imagine how challenging it must have been for you. Remember, it's never too late to make positive changes and take steps towards improving your mental health and well-being. If you ever feel overwhelmed or need someone to talk to, don't hesitate to reach out to the anxiety hotline. They're available to listen and provide support. You don't have to go through this alone. Take care of yourself, and remember that there's hope for better days ahead.

Also, if it helps, here's a before/after (4 years ago vs. last week).  Still doing Invisalign.  See my posts for details about what I had done