The only difference I can see is philtrum length vs lower lip - chin length. also cloony has less ramus I can shorten my philtrum by smililing. I ...

What about longer faces though? Is it actually possible to reduce the height of the front maxilla by widening and bringing down the molars? Looks lik...

@eddiemoney Look how sharp and downwards pointed his right cheekbone is. Maybe his phenotype has something to do with this but I doubt it. Regardless,...

This is quite interesting. His face definetly seems too long in the after. Look at the change in ramus, too long imo. Quite interesting cause supposed...

This is the same guy for a better idea of what I was talking about you'd think he was 6 foot 5 but hes only 5 foot 8

@eddiemoney I was talking about the maxilla dropping down due to no teeth contact. This drops the front maxilla more than the back. look up gummy smil...

I got no clue, but just going to say you are good looking. weird teeth really isnt a massive deal. you have a decently rotated maxilla that is up and ...

This is what i'm concerned about too. The maxilla can drop without any change to IMW just by lacking teeth contact. I really want to know whats going...

@silver Good stuff I don't really think it's one or the other though. Progress wasn't really talking about just the feet. He discusses using the feet ...

Whatever they did to that kid is clearly not ideal treatment. Maxilla non existant. His forward maxilla growth looks best in the first picture. Even ...

i think sinned is correct This makes sense to me because without teeth contact, his mandible gets left behind, causing lower incisors to stick forward...

Because the mandible gets trapped back and the maxilla molars go too high, they angle backwards in CW. Also, people with high molars who don't have ov...

I assume we need to expand with teeth contact to allow the mandible to follow the maxilla, but the teeth contact will prevent rotation. So then once ...

@progress Hey dude How flexible do you consider yourself？ both in general and compared to yourself in 2016? also, any quick tips about how we can list...

@megamandude how wide is your palate？ IMW is decent but my inter cainine distance needs work.

@eddiemoney What would you do if you were this woman? Body posture work, trying to widen with tongue and swallowing properly? Slightly more emphasis o...

If the palate gets narrower due to insufficent tongue on teeth contact, I think expanding should definetly be a primary goal before all the upswing ca...

oh yeah you're right white woman do have those lips. still think the model could be better but ill move on Is this correct？woman have greater gonial ...

@eddiemoney sorry, my analysis is that the woman's lip area could be more attractive based on nothing but my gut feeling. then when I look more closel...

This one Even her zygo seems a little off when I cover and reveal it, unless thats photoshop

@eddiemoney the 2 models that captain posted about to kiss. If you cover EVERYTHING but her lips, you wouldn't think she was as attractive as her lips...

1 Sign for me is they both have inverted upper lips and both seem to be lacking in the forward cheekbone look you get from CCW. I think the woman is....

The man and woman supermodels could both use CCW rotation

O pisss off Eddie. If I can‘t sit in bed all day watching anime while improving my cheekbones, then mewing doesn‘t work! now I can finally go back ...

Progress it‘s because he‘s sucking all the saliva away for the suck hold, then his saliva cant clean his teeth. I do the same thing. You just have to...

Looks like the camera is angled more in the after picture (you can see more cheek) which gives the impression that the rotation didn‘t change that muc...

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@paperbag Progress looks great, but im trying to analyse his face with difficulty why do his cheekbones stick out sideways, but Brad Pitt and many goo...

@paperbag ? thought he used his tongue, not an expander

@progress Sexy af even without the yellow tint. even philtrum is shorter. Entire skull wider. check out the left ogee curve, it hiked up a cm lmao. wh...

Thanks for responding progress Looking at that skull again, the bottom teeth are further ahead of the upper teeth which they connect with. Mine are ...

maybe CCW rotation will not result in ramus lengthening IF the maxilla is already clockwise rotated, especially if your bite currently favours the fro...

appreciate all your responses Eddie, and everyone else too

@goblin_slayer na i got a comprehemsive blood test and everything is great. weird that its scienfitic consensus that humans can develop healthily on a...

@fiver I agree that front teeth chewing/biting is important to an extent, but I have a strong feeling it’s largely the tongue and or other muscles tha...

any ideas guys? I'm not disagreeing with this thread, but if definitely looks Mac miller has a more clockwise rotated maxilla. what is going on with...

@progress @eddiemoney looking at @progress' skull gif-the maxillairy tooth 2nd furtherest to the left, is pointing more forwards in the better skull. ...

my guess Pushing on the incisive papilla makes u want to clench, so it's probably to balance out the forces so the maxilla doesn’t become overly CCW.....

I don't thing significant maxilla upswing needs to take many years. Looks like progress got decent upswing in about 2 years, i'm still trying to under...

Looks like the worse looking guy has molars that are vertically too high in relation to his front teeth. this is exactly the problem i need to fix. i ...

I'm going to ask this AGAIN in hopes of a response why don't people just bite down hard with the front teeth to bring the front maxilla up? The teeth ...

No. The teeth do not need the tongue, they just magically expand by themselves the human body is a static brick after 18.

@noises Really appreciate the reaponse. if there is a link that I can read to further understand that would be really helpful i'll check out your prof...

@eddiemoney agreed. but the method of rotation is more or less the same right?

bumping to see if this gets any more replies will suction of the back third cause the molars to go up or down? It feels like pressure on the front pal...

@horatio Thanks for bringing that up. My understanding is that forward maxilla are more clockwise rotated. So that would line up with what I said in ...

@eddiemoney Regarding the progress you have made, I assume your ogee curve is better with your counter clockwise maxilla rotation? Wider and more forw...

@sinned Thanks i'll check it out

@Progress As I have already mentioned, everything I have put forward in this thread, as my way of discussing this issue, has been ignored or refutted ...

@pame Couldn't agree more. One tip I have is purple potatoes/purple sweet potatoes. One of the healthiest foods on planet earth. As you have said, get...

I don't need to continue this conversation. You clearly enjoy eating meat and probably always have. I was enjoying it hours before I decided to stop e...

@sinned Actually I never extrapolated anything. I just made the simple observation, as most scientists have over many years, that our mouths are desig...

As of yet, I do not believe anyone has actually answered why they believe we expanded our AMY1 gene multiple times. Lots of diagrams and fancy science...

Sorry to hear about all that. Definetlty spend lots of time improving full body posture. goodluck

@silberman Thank you for your wisdom silverman. I will be sure to contact her and let her know about your discovery. Regarding the cancer discussed...

@sinned Again, the video I linked explains why you are wrong about trophic levels. And the saliva gene wasn’t retained, it continued to expand, induca...