Idk where people got this anteface idea from. Does Mike Mew talk about it?

In 0 mewing success stories have I seen people's midface project more than the before pic. The mandible comes forward, eyes get more support, facial width to height ratio improves, nose straightens, gonial angle lessens, and jaw rotates. But "anteface" development I know nothing of, haven't seen, and have a feeling it is an internet meme made up by people who don't understand maxillary positioning and the fact that everything moves, and not necessarily forward. More up than anything. 

Maxillary development also has nothing to do with:

Lip position in relation to nation

Presence of prognathism (this in fact when it is a maloclussion is caused by recession)

Distance from ears to front of face

Orbital vector

Ignore anyone who alludes to the above in relation to maxillary placement.

As far as anteface goes, do you have pictures of what you mean? Because if you are brachyfacial, your midface will never project the furthest out anyway. That is a long faced quality and actually is caused many times by a downwardly rotated maxilla which creates the illusion that the midface projects the furthest.

This being considered, I have an "anteface" myself if what you say it is what I think you mean. Let me tell you it isn't a great trait to have and makes your chin look weak and your nose look too prominent. 

I think this picture illustrates the big difference:

Notice how the woman on the left has a very forward mandible and her lips and nose project outwards much more. Also, her brow ridge and nose form a sloped curve, whereas the one woman has a gap that drops down and comes back out. Its looks as if the maxilla is way more forward and past the eyes vs. the other woman who looks like it's all in a more fixed line. It's almost like everything but her eyeballs have been stretched forward.

The term isn't mentioned by Mike Mew or in many scientific uses/medical stuff too much, but it does exist and is discussed on certain other forums.

Yeah, technically the look is similar to prognathism, but the difference being that it doesn't necessarily have to be a "bad" thing as in some Google images show. The excessive mandible or maxilla forward development can be acromegaly or other problems, but in some people just natural. The general idea I've gathered on some forums is that an ante face or very forward grown maxilla is a key part of a properly developed face and/or profile. Maybe not as extreme as the woman shown to the left above, but something close to that. Seems brachyfacial might be right, but what are you gathering?

By "midface" you mean maxilla, right? The midface term just means the middle part of the face, whereas maxilla is the bone that is in question here about its placement and how it projects the face/skin/etc. more forward. Face pulling moves the whole midface structure somewhat -- not just upwards but somewhat forward it must too (including zygo/cheekbones). I've seen pretty much zero mandibular changes though.

Posted by: Keengo

I think this picture illustrates the big difference:

 

Notice how the woman on the left has a very forward mandible and her lips and nose project outwards much more. Also, her brow ridge and nose form a sloped curve, whereas the one woman has a gap that drops down and comes back out. Its looks as if the maxilla is way more forward and past the eyes vs. the other woman who looks like it's all in a more fixed line. It's almost like everything but her eyeballs have been stretched forward.

The term isn't mentioned by Mike Mew or in many scientific uses/medical stuff too much, but it does exist and is discussed on certain other forums.

Yeah, technically the look is similar to prognathism, but the difference being that it doesn't necessarily have to be a "bad" thing as in some Google images show. The excessive mandible or maxilla forward development can be acromegaly or other problems, but in some people just natural. The general idea I've gathered on some forums is that an ante face or very forward grown maxilla is a key part of a properly developed face and/or profile. Maybe not as extreme as the woman shown to the left above, but something close to that. Seems brachyfacial might be right, but what are you gathering?

By "midface" you mean maxilla, right? The midface term just means the middle part of the face, whereas maxilla is the bone that is in question here about its placement and how it projects the face/skin/etc. more forward. Face pulling moves the whole midface structure somewhat -- not just upwards but somewhat forward it must too (including zygo/cheekbones). I've seen pretty much zero mandibular changes though.

Honestly it is hard to gage but it looks the woman on the left just has improper forward head posture. I wouldn't use bad posture to try and make the midface appear projecting but whoever took this pic for comparison did just that. It is dishonest and it creates A LOT of confusion on the internet. Notice how the woman on the left has her head turned slightly LEFT where the woman on the right is turned slightly RIGHT. So of course the woman on the left appears to have deeper set eyes. The woman on the right is purposely hiding part of her brow area so it makes the eyes seem more forward. 

Plus, things like this are affected by so many other factors. People who have very neotenous features will appear to have a midface that is small but it just is because their forehead and frontal bone is so pronounced. 

People with naturally large jaws (due to high prenatal T exposure) will appear to have this "anteface" you speak of but that is entirely genetic and due to factors outside of their own control. Generally people with more robust phenotypes can develop this but it is more pronounced in dolichofacial types because the face is elongated.

In brachyfacial types, the midface looks sunken but that is due to facial morphology and not maxillary angle. 

In short, there are many factors outside of your control that will determine whether you develop a profile like that. If you are short faced you may never look that way from profile as typically short faced people have a naturally small midface .

Even if the woman on the left isn't adopting forward head posture (pretty sure she is) she is dolichofacial and the woman on the right appears more mesofacial approaching brachyfacial. Not a fair comparison .

In short, don't take such a feature as part of maxillary development. Truth be told you are probably more likely to see it on long faced people which is why they have a long face to begin with.

Also, how deep set your eyes are can be changed but it is also genetic many times. Same with nose shape. I do know that people's eyes get more support as the maxilla rotates but everyone's limit is genetic. Some people like East Asians or West Africans never develop eyes that are as deep set as some people from the Mediterranean. So many other factors play into that as well, not just maxilla placement.

Consider that in areas where people have wide palates and strong jaws, that a whole host of other features are present and many times not even all that similar. Jaw development affects the whole face but so does the climate and environment of your DNA. Multiple phenotypes may look different but if posture is correct, you can still have a lot of individual variation in things like forehead projection, brow projection, angle of gonion, nose shape, palate width genetic limit, etc.

Tl; Dr: various phenotypes exist and even with great posture we all will never look alike

I think I just got caught up in it because since I was a meltface before I assumed that was why I looked more unattractive -- i.e., the droppy and melting/sagging look with poor forward growth and a lot of downward growth. Since I began pulling my face went forward and I'm wondering if this "ante face" or really protruding midface region is an ideal or not. I'm not going to name the site(s) that focus on these aesthetics here since I don't know if they're blacklisted or such, but you can probably guess where these analyses come from without me explaining them ("looks sites" and such). 

Anyways, I notice it's not true that everyone doesn't obviously have very forward grown faces, but this doesn't always have a bearing on physical attraction anyways. Nevertheless, I can't know how much forward growth I am "supposed" to have -- however you want to understand that -- because I've always been pretty melted/downward growth and long face syndrome since until everything balanced out dramatically in the last 4-6 months (facial width vs. height; balanced look as opposed to horse face-ish; etc.). Still not content, but I really will have to figure this out myself anyways.

Regardless it would be fine if anyone else could weigh in on this "ante face" thing if they wish

EDIT: Here's the woman on the left before and after. Apparently the specialist who performed this on her is the one who uses the term "ante face"

Posted by: Keengo

I think I just got caught up in it because since I was a meltface before I assumed that was why I looked more unattractive -- i.e., the droppy and melting/sagging look with poor forward growth and a lot of downward growth. Since I began pulling my face went forward and I'm wondering if this "ante face" or really protruding midface region is an ideal or not. I'm not going to name the site(s) that focus on these aesthetics here since I don't know if they're blacklisted or such, but you can probably guess where these analyses come from without me explaining them ("looks sites" and such). 

Anyways, I notice it's not true that everyone doesn't obviously have very forward grown faces, but this doesn't always have a bearing on physical attraction anyways. Nevertheless, I can't know how much forward growth I am "supposed" to have -- however you want to understand that -- because I've always been pretty melted/downward growth and long face syndrome since until everything balanced out dramatically in the last 4-6 months (facial width vs. height; balanced look as opposed to horse face-ish; etc.). Still not content, but I really will have to figure this out myself anyways.

Regardless it would be fine if anyone else could weigh in on this "ante face" thing if they wish

 

EDIT: Here's the woman on the left before and after. Apparently the specialist who performed this on her is the one who uses the term "ante face"

Obviously her after looks better than the before but to be honest there is still head tilting. I don't know why surgeons do that. Oh wait. I know it's because it just makes the end result look better. Notice the ear in relation to eyes.

Also another thing to consider is some people's faces look more developed in the jaw due to them having a weak brow or absent brow altogether. This is seen in many women with jaw projection and is falsely called maxillary prognathism but it is no such thing. When seen from a side view, the skull appears prognathous due to the lack of brow projection but it is an optical illusion. This is why some women appear to have more "forward" growth than men like in the picture you showed 

The angle of your face is honestly not super important. Good looking people exist with flat profiles or projecting ones. Sure, some people are blessed with projection but some others may never be there. Just be the best version of you. 

Posted by: Keengo

EDIT: Here's the woman on the left before and after. Apparently the specialist who performed this on her is the one who uses the term "ante face"

Can you share with me the specialist website? I am very interested to read how they describe this cosmetic procedure.

Posted by: EddieMoney

Obviously her after looks better than the before but to be honest there is still head tilting. I don't know why surgeons do that. Oh wait. I know it's because it just makes the end result look better. Notice the ear in relation to eyes.

Here, just so you are happy, I changed the angle of the face by 10 degrees to match the previous. Its obvious that more than the head angle was changed. The previous picture was taken from a higher point making the jaws look smaller and was taken from slightly to the left or behind the head to make the face look less convex.

Thanks for that abdul. 

Anyway back to my main point, stuff like this is not really worth worrying about. If you google the side profiles of many famous attractive people, you will find maybe a few things in common (low gonial angle, decent lip projection, cheekbone development), but how flat or angular the profile is isn't a shared trait. Some people with angular profiles are attractive just like people with more flat profiles can he attractive.

I will say that on men, angular profiles are more dimorphic as a well developed jaw really emphasizes masculinity. Women can get away with more facial neoteny than men by thousands of miles. 

However, some men with smaller jaws are considered to look "high class" and like "pretty boys". Famous good looking men don't need to look super rugged, either. Facial balance matters more.

What I am saying is you can adopt proper posture and maybe never develop an angular profile. As I have been mewing more my profile has actually gotten flatter, and less angular. I think it is simply because I have stopped forward head posture. Even with this my chin and jaw look more prominent despite the fact my profile has lost angularity and become a straighter line. My lips evert much less as well. 

Everyone's results will be different. Your final "perfect" posture might be flat, who knows. Tom Cruise has a flat profile and is considered attractive. Brad Pitt has a more angular profile and is considered attractive. MMA fighters have very angular profiles and some are considered attractive, and some not. 

Profile quality is not anywhere near as important as facial harmony. You have guys like Ryan Gosling who have flat profiles and aren't super dimorphic in appearance yet are more attractive than guys like Brock Lesnar who have very rugged and angular side views. 

Side profile realistically is a very small part of the attractive equation. As long as your chin and jaw aren't super far behind your forehead you sshould be ok. That and not having bimax also helps. That is the type of profile that will wreck a face just like the weak chin profile. But flat or angular profiles are otherwise just normal and can be aesthetic in different ways. The flat profile more elegant and youthful, the angular profile more virile and dominant. 

Bimax is a bad thing? I thought people got it specifically for mandible rotation -- usually in bad bite/teeth cases and combined maxilla recession or such

Bimax is far from ideal. It makes the chin weak and makes the lips puff out to a point a "monkey face" is made. Google bimaxillary protrusion and see what I mean.

It also is just teeth tipping so the maxilla doesn't move forward whatsoever. It's recession with teeth tipping which ruins the face.

This is bimax. From what I understand, improper tongue posture from thrusting during swallowing creates an environment where the teeth are pushed out and apart. This combined with lip incompetence makes the teeth angle out on both the upper and lower jaw, pushing the mouth out and weakening the chin.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPwFObOTzSX1VpnX952BBxC80xbSKwQSlzQITZBD1UBYzbknbRCw

This isn't any sort of maxillary projection of any kind. In fact, a downswung maxilla can emphasize this via optical illusion. The downswung placement makes the projection look more emphasized due to weak eye support, high gonial angle, and weak mandible development.