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Orthodontics ruined my mouth-Now trying to get correct oral posture back and be able to close my mouth again

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(@closemymouthagain)
Posts: 4
Topic starter
 

Warning.This is going to be a long long story.You don't have to read it if you don't want to.

Hello.I am a 18 year old female who has issues with closing her mouth and teeth.I don't know how to start this post,I think I should start with my story which is about how I developed mouth breating habit and how orthodontics ruined my lip seal and mouth.So I will start from the very beginning.

When I was 2 or 3 years old me and my family lived in a very dusty house.That was because there were carpets everywhere,lots of textile products,a lot of stuffed plushie toys but the worst , carpet flooring.

Just when i was a toddler I was coughing and sneezing non stop.I always had fever,I was always sick and doctors couldnt find a reason for it!It wasn't asthma it wasn't allergies...So instead they gave me a lots of cortisol needles and continious antibiotics to make it stop.Cortisol,a hormone which the body produces under a lot of stress and exteremely harmful even for adults,even when your body produces it on it's own it is still very harmful.Imagine those needles being given to a 2-3 year old child.Anyways so cortisol needles and antibiotics didn't help solving the problem too so my father gave up on doctors and started searching for a cure.He found out that it was literally because of the dust inside the house(I will explain more of this later).So they immediately throw away all the carpet floorings,carpets,they put my stuffed plush toys away and bought antibacterial pillows and blankets for me.That helped a lot and I avoided getting asthma somehow.But unfortunately I already developed a mouth breathing habit and that is why my sickness never completely went away...I developed a mouth breathing habit at such a young age

So fast forwards to the age of 8 I had all my front teeth including my canines rotten because of the usage of unneeded antibiotic threatments and cortisol needles.But thank god the permanent teeth didn't rot away,but to this day they are still very fragile,sensitive and they are very transparent.Anyways I didn't know about the correct tongue posture those days and always kept my tongue at the bottom of my jaw because I though that was the way It should have been.This eventually let my palate to get narrower and caused my teeth to overcrowd.I also have a high palate.So I got braces at the age of 11.My orthodontist was planning to do a palate expansion at first but i have torus palatinus,he explained us that it would be hard to make an applience for it,that is why he didn't start the treatment with upper palate expansion(which is ridiculous,only a little effort was needed to make that applience).So i started the treatment without palate expansion and he wanted to remove some of my teeth but thank god my family was completely against it,they didn't allow him to extract any of my teeth.I should absolutely mention that he didn't take any x-rays or he didn't measure anything at all before starting the treatment.He just glued the brackets on and thats it.When i was at the age of 12(after 1 year of treatment) I was in absolutely pain.The pain got worse and worse day by day.I was having my 12 year molars coming out.And of course because he didnt take any x-rays or something like that he didn't know that a part of the 12 year molar was under the molar in front of it...Imagine a teeth is coming out under another teeth.On top of that braces are trying to hold the other teeth in its place...I still remember that pain, and to this day it is the worst pain I have ever had.I would try to rip off the armchairs fabric because of the pain and my mother couldn't stand seeing me like that.We went to the orthodontist more than 10 times maybe with this issue and only thing he did was saying that my pain tolerance was very low and that I was a very spoiled child,in his opinion I was making it up to get attention and he send us away.After a month or so I got a hugeee swelling on my neck,right below the painful molar.My mother took me to a normal doctor and even a doctor not a dentist knew it was caused by my teeth.So when I told him about the pain of my teeth he adviced us to go to another dentist to get it checked out.And we went to another dentist.The other dentist took some x-rays and told us that the half of 12 year molar was under the other molar and because it has been like this for a long time it had rotted the root of the other molar.I remember her saying ''What kind of irresponsible orthodontist is that!How couldn't he see such a big problem''That was the final point.My mother decided to end the treatment and I got a root canal for the rotten molar.But even today half of the 12 year molar is buried in my gum.The pain was gone everything was good.Only with a difference.My bottom teeth moved to such an unusual crowding that everytime I bite something a little carelessly I would bite and rip of my flesh too

So we started searching for another orthodontic treatment a few years later...again which was a big mistake.We went to a orthodontist but she said in order to get checked up I needed to had my cavities filled first.There were no cavities to be honest but my teeth was drilled and filled with that unneeded material.After I got 6 of my teeth drilled and filled for no reason I was finnaly able to see the orthodontist.But she was fighting with one of her assistants and was very angry because of that.So she came and checked my teeth and started shouting at me that such patients are wasting her time,there are more patients whose teeth are '' much more NOT STRAİGHT'' and told us to went away.My father was shocked also so we searched for another orthodontist.And I started a second treatment.This time with another,a better dentist at least though.There was no issue with my upper teeth so he didn't do anything for them.But in my head I was thinking ''what if this results in my bite to get corrupted since he is not touching the upper teeth.'' And my expectation was true.I think he put the brackets on my canines a little too high.I wasnt able to make my molars touch.I told this to him and he checked it and put some sort of filling at some of the molars.The thing I immediately asked was'' Are they going to be here for the rest of my life?''.They were slightly uncomfortable.And he said things like ''Oh they are going to get better as the treatment goes on,I am going to remove them at the end of the treatment blabla...''Everytime I went for a check up I remember telling ''I still cannot close my mouth,I still cannot bite correctly...''Eveytime he answered me with ''It is going to get better as the treatment goes on...''Because I wasn't able to close my mouth at all that resulted my face to get lenghtened at such a little time.I am seeing that 1-2 year makes a lot difference looking at the photos... At this point I was also at such a bad school that you could find any kind of bugs,hair,eyebrow,small plastic packaging,egg shells,mold and objects I dont even know how to describe in the food served in cafeteria.We weren't allowed to bring food from home(so that they could get more money from children,because they have to eat somehow)and I completely stopped eating at school.Also since my mother worked I usually ordered some junk food,and sometimes i didnt eat at all( I didnt know how to cook and I was too lazy for cooking anyways:/such a big fault,I shouldn't have done that,I realized that cooking is actually fun and I started cooking for myself lately)Only meal I properly had everyday was breakfast.I am still 162 cm as heigh and my weight is 40 kilograms.Which is very bad for my health and under the normal limit.All of my family is very tall and here I am stuck at 162 cm.Though I was carrying very heavy backpacks to school,my fault here again:((((( I was too lazy to prepare my backpack so i took all of them to school and to home everyday.Also maybe the cortisol needles and unnecessary antibiotic might have played a little role here.Anyways at such an important age which I should have had a very good nutrition,because that was probably my last growth,I didn't get and adequate nutrition at all.The last time I went to the orthodontist he said he was going to remove my braces.And I immediately said ''But I still cannot close my mouth and cannot bite!'' He told me they would get better after he removes them.My braces was removed and he put the retainer wire from my canine to my other canine.And..he forgot to remove the fillings -.- At that point I forgot that too because I was so excited to get my braces removed.A week later I went to get those fillings removed but when I went to the clinic,I learned that he moved away to somewhere and closed the clinic -.- I got those filling removed by another dentist,he also laughed at that I find it really funny too :D... Then I started seaching for a way to correct my bite on my own because I gave up on getting a help from othodontist, I dont trust them anymore, they are just people who don't care about their patients problems and they are ruining peoples faces and teeth for the sake of money in my book.Sorry if that's a little harsh but that's the reality for traditional orthodontists ( also I dont have underbite or overbite but because of those fillings which made some of my molars to slightly bury in my gums after I got them removed,whenever I try to make my molars touch each other my lower canines and lower front teeth are pushing the upper ones forwards.I have to force my chin back so that I can create a little space between my lower canines and incisors and the upper ones to make my molars touch correctly,which is very hard and I am not sure if I should let my lower teeth push the upper ones or If I should force my chin back.For some reason chewing gum helps a lot though,makes them more relaxed somehow) I found about the tongue posture,how mouth breathing effects the face and the teeth.It all made sense and even if it didn't work there is no harm from trying right?I started having correct oral posture and started breathing from my nose no matter how stuffed it is,It has been 5 months or so.For the first time in my life I can proudly say that I am not waking up with a sore and dry sore throat!(unless I am sick)I am coughing and sneezing way less!I am literally shocked!I only got sick 1 time in this 5 month period.And while I understand that it may not effect my face anymore since I already stopped growing I am determined to believe that my bite will get better and I will be able to close my mouth in relaxed position again one day.Any help any advice from anyone would be very appreciated.If you have been reading this far thank you so much about caring I wouldn't read a this long post to be honest :D But here I am ready for changes.I will also update any positive effect here.Goodbye for now.Also sorry for any mistakes,english is not my first language.I might remove some of this story some time later since it is too long by the way.


 
Posted : 03/11/2018 3:45 pm
Ayla31 and Ayla31 reacted
(@closemymouthagain)
Posts: 4
Topic starter
 

Yes it definetely helps me to keep my throat moistured.I also use a air humidifier at night,I live in a quite dry place and the heating makes the air a little more dryer,humidifier helps a lot.

It might be a career option for me.I am not really comfortoble in telling the country I live in to be honest,but it is common to see female dentists and orthodontists here.She was responsible for keeping an eye on the other dentists and orthodontists so I can understand that she might be under a lot of stress but that shouldn't be a behaviour towards a patient no matter what the condition is in my opinion.They did took an x-ray to see the cavities but those were white cavities,as I read online they are the first stage of a cavity and it is common to see them get healed.So that was  a little unnecessary to be honest in my opinion,after getting all those fillings she didn't even treated me like a patient also so...I don't know what to think about that.

That picture is quite helpful.It is not completely like that though.When you look a my bite you can think that it is correct but the lower teeth are tilted inwards so there is no gap on the outside part but there is a gap in the inside part when i bite down.I can feel it very easily with my tongue.That is why a picture might not be a lot helpful:/ They look perfectly straight when you look from outside but the bite is not correct really.I know that because i remember before i got braces a second time I could close my bite with no gaps at all and it would feel normal.I think there is a test for that actually and it is called carbon paper test."it marks those points on the teeth where the teeth contact during biting and grinding"I asked a lot of dentists to do that test for me and all of them are like,"Oh there is nothing your teeth are perfectly straight there is no test for that blabla" It is just a paper! How can it be so hard to bring a sheet of paper for patient to bite on for like only a minute!Probably because they don't have that paper for the test in my opinion( not orthodontists,I didnt know that there was a thing called carbon paper test back then,and even if I did know I think that it would be impossible to do that test with those filings)

The lower fronth incisors are back a few milimeters behing the upper ones already.The problem about the front part is about my canines mostly.The lower canines canines are pushing them outwards so tightly that i need to force my chin back so that they don't push on each other that much,which also creates a lot of gap between my upper incisors and lower ones when I do that.Also in that photo the upper incisors are covering a part of the lower incisors(the upper parts of the lower incisors).My upper incisors are nearly not covering any part of the lower ones,I can see the slight gap when I tilt my head backwards in front of a mirror.But they are in front of the lower ones(I hope this explanation was good because I don't have a idea about how to describe it to be honest,A photo wouldn't really help too since it cannot be seen when you look at it)

About chewing,I don't have to force my chin back while I am chewing and after like 30 mins of chewing gum.It really makes my teeth relaxed and creates a little bit gap between the canines.It makes my muscles a little sore but it feels wonderful because I don't have to force my chin back for like 30 mins,then strangely that effect goes away slowly :(  (It doesn't help my inside part of the  molars to touch but it helps a whooole lot with the canine problem.Also I can make my left canines touch each other but i can't make my right canines touch,there was no filling material on the right first premolar but there was on the left one, in fact it was the highest filling material of all my teeth so i think that caused my right first premolar to get lenghtened upwards and left one to bury a little more inside the gum.) I also chew with my 12 years teeths,my molars and my premolars.And also with my canines...Which might not be a good thing but as I said it really creates some space between the canines and makes me really relaxed.Thank god I didn't loose a permanent molar but the root canaled tooth is a really dark blue colored right now and it gets bluer and bluer.There is no sensitivity or aching but it is getting bluer and bluer day by day.When my dentist did the root canal she told me that the expected life span for that teeth was like 4 years and it has been 8 years since i got that root canal.I got it checked by a dentist some time ago and he told me that it is good to go unless it starts aching or the gum gets swollen.And told me it was normal for a root canal to turn into blue since it is dead.I am not really sure if I should be worried about that teeth :/ He also told me that he can get it covered if it bothers me aesthetically but I didn't see a need for that nobody is seeing my molars when I am talking or smiling anyways.Also I want to keep an eye on that blueness in case something unusual happens(he wanted to cover it with some sort of white material???I don't know what that's called)

My problem is not exteremely severe.But even it was I really wouldn't get help from another orthodontists around the place where I live to be honest.There isn't a good orthodontist here to be honest.Also thanks a lot for replying it means a lot for me to get opinions of someone else.


 
Posted : 04/11/2018 11:48 am
(@apollo)
Posts: 1738
 

You might be interested in these videos from Mike Mew. In this Q/A video, Dr. Mew responded to my question saying that adult palate expansion should still be possible with a torus palatinus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMb5OHy2z_s

In this video Dr. Mew describes how the upper arch needs to be wide enough beyond the lower arch to hold the cheek curtain away from the bite surface to prevent the kind of traumatic biting of the buccal mucosa that you described:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faGWLa4ljO8


 
Posted : 04/11/2018 1:51 pm
(@closemymouthagain)
Posts: 4
Topic starter
 

Ok then if you think so I will upload a picture of my teeth.Not really sure if it would be helpful though,but I will.From side or from front? Or should I take a photo of my palate?


 
Posted : 04/11/2018 2:23 pm
(@closemymouthagain)
Posts: 4
Topic starter
 

I already watched those videos.I found those videos when I was searching about expansion with torus palatinus.Unfortunately no orthodontist here wants to do palate expansion on a patient with already straight teeth :( They only care about the straightness of the teeth not functuon but only straightness.So that leaves my palate with only option,my tongue.Still thanks for replying though I will watch these videos again to check if I missed or forgot any information he talked about.


 
Posted : 04/11/2018 2:30 pm
(@entelechy)
Posts: 113
 

please help me out and take this survey if you have  had premolar extractions:   it's to get statistics on how many get negative consequences  for advocacy work to help victims get reimbursed for reversal costs.

 

entelechy

 
Posted : 11/05/2020 1:16 am

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