Yo don't necessarily have to chin tuck in public, however what you do have is to establish a solid postural foundation of your upper back, neck and cranium, that means: 

• standing up straight, with your shoulders back
• shoulders not rounded forward
• no turtle neck
• neck should be in a neutral position, sit against the wall with your face opposite of the wall. Adjust your posture so that your neck and rear deltoids touch the wall. Maintain that position most of the time

I do chin tucks alone. In public, I do semi chin-tucks

It might help if instead of thinking "tuck chin" you think "head back, neck long". If you can arrange mirrors to see your profile, your ear canal should be directly over the point of your shoulder. Walking this way will  necessarily activate the upper abdomen, and you'll feel it. Then once your head is back far enough, *lift* the occiput to elongate the neck and flatten the  cervical curve. Your chin and eyes will drop an inch or so, and your eyelids will notice. However, you will not get a stuffed turkey double chin from doing this. Although the McKenzie chin tuck is a great exercise, I think it's a misnomer that leads people to focus on the wrong thing. "Head back, neck long"--like a ballerina, really.

Do you arrive to straighten your neck entirely against a wall? I think my posture has been so bad, I don’t think I could do that yet even with the help of my hands. I’ve heard people talk about the paleo posture where we loose a cervical curve, what do you think of that? 

Posted by: elevee

It might help if instead of thinking "tuck chin" you think "head back, neck long". If you can arrange mirrors to see your profile, your ear canal should be directly over the point of your shoulder. Walking this way will  necessarily activate the upper abdomen, and you'll feel it. Then once your head is back far enough, *lift* the occiput to elongate the neck and flatten the  cervical curve. Your chin and eyes will drop an inch or so, and your eyelids will notice. However, you will not get a stuffed turkey double chin from doing this. Although the McKenzie chin tuck is a great exercise, I think it's a misnomer that leads people to focus on the wrong thing. "Head back, neck long"--like a ballerina, really.

 

Yes, words do create important visuals, that’s a great point. Even when I do that it looks like my head is still forward though I feel like I’m falling back, could be a lack of practice.

how long before this starts to life and expand the maxilla?

Because I’m honestly beginning to thing strengthening those anterior neck muscles my be the ticket to expediting this process.

Yes, it makes sense that you will feel like you are falling backwards--it's not just the anterior neck muscles, but also the abdomen and back that become weak from forward head.. Chances are if you look at yourself in profile, you may see a hollow chest and droopy lower belly even if you are very thin. Moving the head back over the shoulders demands that those abs wake up and do something, and it will be tiring at first. It also may feel quite sore on both front and back of neck, since the back neck is weak and the front muscles are shortened from underuse.  (Short walks  that you take regularly--from the car to the store, up the stairs in your place of work--are great places to work on this because they are frequent and short enough that you can really push through for the duration of your walking.)

So what you want to do is open the shoulders and strengthen the back. Here are a couple of links with the sorts of exercises you could try. To open the chest: https://www.thejourneyjunkie.com/yoga-tutorials/stretch-chest-open-shoulders-yoga-sequence/

To strengthen the back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POSWXpJB5sY

You're right about the posture being key to facial development. Many of the posters here are coming to the same conclusion: the whole spine must assume its natural alignment before real pressure is applied to the maxilla--but once it does, the pressure is strong and almost effortless.

And yes, I'm a fan of the J shaped spine, which is a little funny for someone with a background in yoga and ballet. But those disciplines actually create a lot of problems in the reproductive system for women, because 'neutral pelvis' places the reproductive organs directly over the vaginal vault in a strained, compressed position that leads to pelvic organ displacement. For women especially, the front line of the body should be one long curve, with the lumbar spine and sacrum distinctly opening behind you. Resist anyone who tells you to tighten your lower abdomen and tuck your bum, ever. Lift the front line of the body (Upper abdomen, sternum and anterior neck), tuck your shoulderblades together and down, and RELAX the lower glutes.

As you walk this way and gain some strength, you'll notice that your gait changes. You look taller and, if you are a woman, a little sassy. The hips naturally begin to roll a bit more as the glutes move out behind you. I've always received comments about my walk but in the past year, since I've really started to work hard on carrying the head over the shoulders and experienced the accompanying opening of the chest, people remark that they can identify me blocks away or in the dark because of my imperial walk. This okay--breathe through it and remind yourself that in fact the entire world is MEANT to walk like queens, we just don't.

@elevee since you brought up changes in gait, have you noticed that you no longer step forward heel first, like you see almost everyone doing? For me, one of the strongest signs of being in good posture has come to be when every step forward lands naturally on the ball of the foot. It's amazing how much control and stability such little change can bring to the gait.

@progress, I think I'm still getting there. I had a broken tailbone and torn ligaments surrounding it about 15 years ago, so I work with chronic tightness there and in the hamstrings. I do notice what you're talking about when I'm fresh out of some good alignment on the hips and IT band, and foot opening work. Yamuna body rolling is the best I've found to really work on that area of the body, but I haven't taken steps to do self care at home yet.

Posted by: elevee

Yes, it makes sense that you will feel like you are falling backwards--it's not just the anterior neck muscles, but also the abdomen and back that become weak from forward head.. Chances are if you look at yourself in profile, you may see a hollow chest and droopy lower belly even if you are very thin. Moving the head back over the shoulders demands that those abs wake up and do something, and it will be tiring at first. It also may feel quite sore on both front and back of neck, since the back neck is weak and the front muscles are shortened from underuse.  (Short walks  that you take regularly--from the car to the store, up the stairs in your place of work--are great places to work on this because they are frequent and short enough that you can really push through for the duration of your walking.)

So what you want to do is open the shoulders and strengthen the back. Here are a couple of links with the sorts of exercises you could try. To open the chest: https://www.thejourneyjunkie.com/yoga-tutorials/stretch-chest-open-shoulders-yoga-sequence/

To strengthen the back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POSWXpJB5sY

You're right about the posture being key to facial development. Many of the posters here are coming to the same conclusion: the whole spine must assume its natural alignment before real pressure is applied to the maxilla--but once it does, the pressure is strong and almost effortless.

And yes, I'm a fan of the J shaped spine, which is a little funny for someone with a background in yoga and ballet. But those disciplines actually create a lot of problems in the reproductive system for women, because 'neutral pelvis' places the reproductive organs directly over the vaginal vault in a strained, compressed position that leads to pelvic organ displacement. For women especially, the front line of the body should be one long curve, with the lumbar spine and sacrum distinctly opening behind you. Resist anyone who tells you to tighten your lower abdomen and tuck your bum, ever. Lift the front line of the body (Upper abdomen, sternum and anterior neck), tuck your shoulderblades together and down, and RELAX the lower glutes.

As you walk this way and gain some strength, you'll notice that your gait changes. You look taller and, if you are a woman, a little sassy. The hips naturally begin to roll a bit more as the glutes move out behind you. I've always received comments about my walk but in the past year, since I've really started to work hard on carrying the head over the shoulders and experienced the accompanying opening of the chest, people remark that they can identify me blocks away or in the dark because of my imperial walk. This okay--breathe through it and remind yourself that in fact the entire world is MEANT to walk like queens, we just don't.

Mate, thank you so much, first of all for this all-encompassing and, surtout, inspiring post. 

Yes, I am actually quite thin and find myself having the most bizarre appearance that I am heavy and some areas where the muscles are weak. 

So, just for some clarification, the tucked pelvis is not a good thing? I feel like everyone says its so important in yoga and such practices, and in fact I find that it pains and tightens the muscles that cramp when I have my period, so what you are saying is really resonating with the effect it has on the reproductive region that you had mentioned. And it truly looks very unattractive on me. 

I've been doing some posture yoga for the past 2 weeks and my traps are finally free! They have been working so hard my whole life *poor things* Now to strengthen this back. 

This is the day where I start walking like a queen! Haha. Sometimes I arrive to have posture like that and then I become shy like people think I am preening or peacocking around but that's nature isnt it! Displaying ourselves in the healthiest and most confident manner.

Thanks again, Elev'ee, I am going to screenshot your post for daily inspiration.

Posted by: Progress

@elevee since you brought up changes in gait, have you noticed that you no longer step forward heel first, like you see almost everyone doing? For me, one of the strongest signs of being in good posture has come to be when every step forward lands naturally on the ball of the foot. It's amazing how much control and stability such little change can bring to the gait.

That's interesting. I can't even picture what that would look like, ball to toe. These posts are gonna have me pacing in my house all day like a scientist. 

Posted by: Progress

@elevee since you brought up changes in gait, have you noticed that you no longer step forward heel first, like you see almost everyone doing? For me, one of the strongest signs of being in good posture has come to be when every step forward lands naturally on the ball of the foot. It's amazing how much control and stability such little change can bring to the gait.

Hi, I think the same. I just bought a pair of merrel vapor glow yesterday. It's a zero drop barefoot shoe that encourages the ball of the foot to land first. It has been years that i am working on It by the way. 

When I run with this tecnique, every step Is so light that i make no noise

Landing on the ball excerbates (almost) every trauma on the ankle, knee, hip and back that heel strike brings. 

IT TAKES TIME TO GET USED TO IT AGAIN.

Aw, @collette, that is very sweet!!

Yes, I do think tucked pelvis is a bad thing. Keep in mind that yoga is an acetic spiritual practice designed by men, pilates is an athletic training method designed by a man, and that ballet is a performative art for the bodies of young women, designed in the 18th century by men. They have very little to do with the way bodies, especially feminine bodies, actually move. For more on the way tucked pelvis affects female bodies, you could have a look at the work of Christine Kent.

For a counterexample to ballet posture, have a look at bharat natyam, the classical Indian dance form that was done exclusively by women in the temples for thousands of years. It has a lifted, open chest and strong lumbar curve, with a typically soft or bent knee. Fascinating, no? Flamenco and much of latin dance has a very similar posture.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bharatanatyam&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS823US826&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj66N7ooNziAhUDLqwKHce2CtsQ_AUIESgC&cshid=1560078435450498&biw=1366&bih=657  

The untucked pelvis is hard for a lot of people to get used to because it does feel conspicuous at first. But you're right, display is actually natural and healthy. When I think of untucking the pelvis and walking with a natural roll, I think "tail feathers".

Someone might ask if it's only for women, and I think no. Flamenco and salsa dancers look pretty darn masculine. The J spine aligns your body to use its strength to the maximum without injury, and I notice that men who develop it tend to be very lean and square shouldered.

@elevee What do you think is the best approach to correcting forward head posture? Do you believe holding a maximal chin tuck throughout the day is effective?

@Pame, see my first post in the thread above. I think this video does a fair job at explaining the difference between what he calls craniocervical tucking and elongated, upright neck posture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FLe3_jmt3I   

I don't think that what he describes is necessarily what Mike Mew is advocating with the McKenzie chin tuck--I think it's what people end up doing when they don't know how/physically can't elongate the neck. The way I approach it is, get the spine in line, elongate the neck, and then drop the chin sufficiently to see. (once you get the spine in line, you'll see that you've actually been carrying your chin so high that you would now be looking well over the head of anyone you spoke to.) It's a *series* of movements that bring the body into alignment, rather than a single movement of drawing the chin back.

Here's a nice post with great illustrations on what sitting looks like with a healthy spine.  Say it a million times: the behind goes behind you.  https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/67213

The good thing is that you can do this all day, every day, without looking like a pelican with its pouch full. Short bursts are easiest at first, because it really is tiring and you will definitely feel like you are going to fall over backward at first, until you gain strength in the unused muscles. I am a big fan of plain old walking to practice healthy spine. Doing anything more strenuous, you tend to lose concentration on alignment and revert to your usual pattern. Start by just trying to walk with your shoulders AND your head directly over your hips. It may feel total foriegn, scary and hard, and that is okay.

The one thing I forgot to mention about walking like a queen to @colette, is that as you do this, your gait will naturally adjust so that most of the action takes place under and behind you. If you watch people with forward head posture, they tend to walk by picking up each foot using the quads and placing it in front of them--it has a goose-step, jerky kind of look. The hip flexors never fully straighten. People with a J spine and natural rolling walk propel themselves forward by "activating the gluteal pack" including the toes BEHIND them. For a split second in each step the  hip flexors fully extend, a little like this.

This is why people with a J spine and natural gait also have a great butt--because they use it unconsciously all day long. https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/62310 I'm 40, and my butt is rounder and more aesthetic than it was when I was 20 because I use it now, and this will definitely happen to you as you progress. Because this walk also actively uses the waist, you'll see reshaping there as well.

@elevee You're right! I never thought of that, but those practices were designed by men. You seem very passionate about this topic, it's very cool to see you speak of these things in such an interesting manner. Do you teach these in your daily life, I wonder?

Also, I watched the video you posted below for Pame, and I understand that the chin tuck does pinch, I've experienced that. This guy in the video seems to be totally against a tuck at all, but I wonder how to get the full effect of the pushing of the tongue if I am not a little tucked. Simply the correction of posture? 

These might seem like redundant questions, but you seem to have a wealth of knowledge and I'd really like to understand before I start applying this full force. Hehe.

Thanks again for your insights. 

@colette--ha! I do not teach in real life--at least not yet. I'd say I am a teacher personality type, for sure. And I am thinking about a career change, and how to make a living from my interest in body mechanics--a challenge for an adult with kids to support and no coparent support. I'm trusting that it's all in process. For now, I'm wondering if a video tutorial, privately linked on this site, might not help with some of the concepts I'm describing?

And as for passion, yes. It's a longer story than this but, I had some health problems in my mid 20s that meant I really needed to figure out how to use my body correctly in a hurry. I've done a lot of exploring to find out what works, and seen a lot in people close to me about what doesn't work. And I'm raising four kids who were born incredibly perfect, and it's really important to me to guide their growth so that they grow up straight and healthy. It blows my mind when parents don't notice their kids' slouch or mouthbreathing, and the more I learn about how much it affects our lifetime health, the more boggled I am.

Regarding your question about the chin tuck, try this:

Sit yourself crosslegged on the floor. Without thinking too hard about your posture, mew the best you can.

Now chin tuck, the way you have been, and feel the difference in the tongue on the palate. 

Now. Readjust yourself so that your posture resembles the sitting folks in the Gokhale post above. You might need a little firm pillow behind or under the tailbone to make your pelvis roll forward. My favorite trick here is one I learned from Kundalini yoga--slide your hand inside the back of your pants and actually pull the flesh of your buttocks out behind you, so that your sitz bones are resting more firmly on the ground. Your pelvis will feel a little forward-tilted, which is good. Now stack your vertabrae one on top of the other, from the bottom to the top. (It might take a lot of muscular strength and balance--it might feel really hard to get your shoulders back. I tend to feel this in the upper abdomen most. My sister uses the word agonizing to describe the effort of drawing her head back.) When you get to the neck, move your head as far back over your shoulders as far as you can--way too far, it may feel, and lift the occiput toward the ceiling. The cervical vertabrae will come into line like beads on a string, click click click. The final lift of the occiput will necessarily cause the chin to drop down and the jaw to move back a little. Now mew as best you can. What do you feel? Does it feel different?

@Progress, I was thinking about your foot strike question while running errands today, and I think the shift in the propulsive force of the walk is the relevant factor. When I'm not really paying attention I still tend to 'walk in front of myself' the way forward head carriage makes us do, and when I do this I strike with the heel. When I pay attention to 'contracting the gluteal pack' and propulsion starts to come from behind me, with fully extended hip flexors, I strike on the hindmost edge of the ball of the foot. Does that sound familiar to you and @Kyte?

@elevée 

With your level of passion and knowledge there is no way you can’t succeed!! And one day when I get the means I’ll be your benefactor 😌 but really. I know you can use your talent for abundance! 

Yes, it feels more deliberate but as I’m pulling my head back my anterior muscles choke me a bit and then my posterior tongue is the first to fall. I need to practice huh. 

@elevee Yes exactly. The mass of the body remains on the backfoot while the front foot is reaching forward, allowing the backfoot to propel the front foot even further forward just before it lands down. Only once the front foot has struck down and heel made contact with the ground does the mass of the body shift from one foot to the other. When you get comfortable with the foot propulsion, you will be able to walk very fast in a way that looks graceful and effortless.

@colette, yes, I'd say work on it for  a while and see if it's a strength issue. What I'm describing is very similar, or almost identical, to Progress's description of what he calls "occipital drive" in another thread, and you can see the way someone else describes it there.

@progress, this is where I need to start working then! Thanks for the confirmation. But the way....since your gait has changed, have you seen your musculature shift at all? with the active toes, I might expect to see slimmer ankles and more defined calves, as well as more rounded glutes and squarer shoulders. Does this meet with your experience?

Haven't been paying attention to my calves, but now that you mention it, they do seem toned and proportionally filled out. Shoulders are squarer and also have a higher resting position. With the J-spine and the occipital drive, the shoulders naturally "hang" from the neck. They comfortably lock in to a position where I don't need to worry whether they are too forward or backward.

Posted by: Progress

Haven't been paying attention to my calves, but now that you mention it, they do seem toned and proportionally filled out. Shoulders are squarer and also have a higher resting position. With the J-spine and the occipital drive, the shoulders naturally "hang" from the neck. They comfortably lock in to a position where I don't need to worry whether they are too forward or backward.

Could you put the occipital drive theory in layman's terms for me? I read through the entire thread and it seemed like an argument over hard mewing or not, but I never arrived to find how it's done or what exactly it is. 

Posted by: Colette

Posted by: Progress

Haven't been paying attention to my calves, but now that you mention it, they do seem toned and proportionally filled out. Shoulders are squarer and also have a higher resting position. With the J-spine and the occipital drive, the shoulders naturally "hang" from the neck. They comfortably lock in to a position where I don't need to worry whether they are too forward or backward.

Could you put the occipital drive theory in layman's terms for me? I read through the entire thread and it seemed like an argument over hard mewing or not, but I never arrived to find how it's done or what exactly it is. 

It probably sounds fancier than it is. Occipital drive refers to the up- and backward drive of the occiput while chin tucking. If you put your hands behind your ramus under your ear, you should feel your sternocleidomastoids engage. If you don't, try tilting your head more upwards. Chin tucking without SCM activation can lead to hyperflexion of the neck, and it is exactly this that proper occipital drive helps to prevent.

The sternocleidomastoid inserts to the temporal bone and the clavicle. So with proper occipital drive you will also be pulling the chest up and back. Which in turn causes the pulling motion to engage lower and lower parts of the spine, until you reach the hips. Eventually it'll feel like you are using the whole torso to pull the head and the hips away from each other.