You look reasonably normal. Your case isn't bad enough to warrant surgery, seriously.

I don't think you should extract teeth, this will probably lead to bigger problems in the long run.

Also your case seems very mild, to me it seems like you have the perfect symptoms of not having proper tongue posture:

• Your tongue rests on your lower teeth and pushes the out, this causes the mandible to move backward to maintain occlusion.
• Because of no tongue force on the upper palate your alveolar ridge is falling causing long maxilla and protruding teeth.

I think you're flattering yourself too much if you truly think your maxilla is forward, your teeth are pushed forward and outward, your maxilla actually looks weakly recessed.

I think you will specifically benefit a lot from strengthening your orbicularis muscle to pull your teeth backwards. I also think you should start doing tongue exercises and start holding proper tongue posture, just keeping your tongue on the upper palate should allow your lower teeth to move backward with the help of the orbicularis muscle, this alone will push your mandible forward by a lot.

Also another cause of lower teeth moving forward is backwards chewing, try to minimize that.(pulling lower teeth against upper teeth).

Your ramus, ears and bite are nicely horizontal though.

Also my theory fits nicely with your mention of TMJ, assuming your lower teeth are protruded too much, this causes the mandible to move backward which pushes the mandible head against the TMJ joint. Your problem is mostly lower teeth protruding too much.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

You look reasonably normal. Your case isn't bad enough to warrant surgery, seriously.

I don't think you should extract teeth, this will probably lead to bigger problems in the long run.

Also your case seems very mild, to me it seems like you have the perfect symptoms of not having proper tongue posture:

• Your tongue rests on your lower teeth and pushes the out, this causes the mandible to move backward to maintain occlusion.
• Because of no tongue force on the upper palate your alveolar ridge is falling causing long maxilla and protruding teeth.

I think you're flattering yourself too much if you truly think your maxilla is forward, your teeth are pushed forward and outward, your maxilla actually looks weakly recessed.

I think you will specifically benefit a lot from strengthening your orbicularis muscle to pull your teeth backwards. I also think you should start doing tongue exercises and start holding proper tongue posture, just keeping your tongue on the upper palate should allow your lower teeth to move backward with the help of the orbicularis muscle, this alone will push your mandible forward by a lot.

Also another cause of lower teeth moving forward is backwards chewing, try to minimize that.(pulling lower teeth against upper teeth).

Your ramus, ears and bite are nicely horizontal though.

Also my theory fits nicely with your mention of TMJ, assuming your lower teeth are protruded too much, this causes the mandible to move backward which pushes the mandible head against the TMJ joint. Your problem is mostly lower teeth protruding too much.

Thank you for your reply auxiliary! 

I definitely don't think I have a forward maxilla. I just meant I have protruded jaws (meaning dentoalveolar ridges). 

Your theory makes perfect sense. However, I don't think much can be done in any reasonable amount of time. I have been trying to mew for the last 3,5 years and honestly I don't think there were any changes. I think strengthening the orbitalis muscle and all that would work if I had space in the mouth for the teeth to travel back. However I don't - my wisdom teeth are exactly on the end of my mouth. 

I really HATE how my protruding mouth creates the look of no chin and I cannot stand the lip incompetence. I know that this forum is very much against extractions and I agree on that in the majority of cases, but what would be the downsides of extractions in my case? My IMW is around 40-41mm so I don't think widening the jaws much is possible. Teeth shaving (stripping) wouldn't produce enough space for any noticeable movement. So basically there is not much that can be done except extractions or hoping that mewing will maybe do something in a very long time. And again, it didn't do anything in 3,5 years.

Posted by: @duroluivev

Posted by: @auxiliarus

You look reasonably normal. Your case isn't bad enough to warrant surgery, seriously.

I don't think you should extract teeth, this will probably lead to bigger problems in the long run.

Also your case seems very mild, to me it seems like you have the perfect symptoms of not having proper tongue posture:

• Your tongue rests on your lower teeth and pushes the out, this causes the mandible to move backward to maintain occlusion.
• Because of no tongue force on the upper palate your alveolar ridge is falling causing long maxilla and protruding teeth.

I think you're flattering yourself too much if you truly think your maxilla is forward, your teeth are pushed forward and outward, your maxilla actually looks weakly recessed.

I think you will specifically benefit a lot from strengthening your orbicularis muscle to pull your teeth backwards. I also think you should start doing tongue exercises and start holding proper tongue posture, just keeping your tongue on the upper palate should allow your lower teeth to move backward with the help of the orbicularis muscle, this alone will push your mandible forward by a lot.

Also another cause of lower teeth moving forward is backwards chewing, try to minimize that.(pulling lower teeth against upper teeth).

Your ramus, ears and bite are nicely horizontal though.

Also my theory fits nicely with your mention of TMJ, assuming your lower teeth are protruded too much, this causes the mandible to move backward which pushes the mandible head against the TMJ joint. Your problem is mostly lower teeth protruding too much.

Thank you for your reply auxiliary! 

I definitely don't think I have a forward maxilla. I just meant I have protruded jaws (meaning dentoalveolar ridges). 

Your theory makes perfect sense. However, I don't think much can be done in any reasonable amount of time. I have been trying to mew for the last 3,5 years and honestly I don't think there were any changes. I think strengthening the orbitalis muscle and all that would work if I had space in the mouth for the teeth to travel back. However I don't - my wisdom teeth are exactly on the end of my mouth. 

I really HATE how my protruding mouth creates the look of no chin and I cannot stand the lip incompetence. I know that this forum is very much against extractions and I agree on that in the majority of cases, but what would be the downsides of extractions in my case? My IMW is around 40-41mm so I don't think widening the jaws much is possible. Teeth shaving (stripping) wouldn't produce enough space for any noticeable movement. So basically there is not much that can be done except extractions or hoping that mewing will maybe do something in a very long time. And again, it didn't do anything in 3,5 years.

 

 

 "I definitely don't think I have a forward maxilla. I just meant I have protruded jaws (meaning dentoalveolar ridges)."

Yes, your upper teeth are protruded and your lower teeth are protruded along with the ridge holding them.

"I have been trying to mew for the last 3,5 years and honestly I don't think there were any changes."

Doesn't mean you can't do anything about it, mewing is not the solution to all problems, there are many things you could try out.

"if I had space in the mouth for the teeth to travel back"

Doesn't look like it to me at all.

Based on your pictures your teeth can:

1. Move slightly backward and straighten out.
2. Tilt upwards on the posterior region to shorten the vertical dimensions.
3. Widen to shorten the vertical dimensions.

"but what would be the downsides of extractions in my case?"

The downside is you'd be visiting morons who only want your money. You already told me they want to extract your maxillary premolars and that they diagnosed you with maxillary protrusion.

It's ridiculous to extract the maxillary premolars as it's your lower teeth that are protruding too much, not your upper teeth. Also you don't have maxillary protrusion, your maxilla looks collapsed and recessed.

Either way they are morons who only thin

Why don't you think about this:

• Your case is very mild.
• You look average in your picture.
• Your maxilla is collapsed and slightly recessed, only your incisors are actually forward.
• Remodeling your lower maxilla forward will always improve your chin's position.
• ICW matters more than IMW.
• Lip seal and strong orbicularis will pull your teeth inwards.
• You could be creative and create some kind of device to pull your teeth backwards. Like some kind of elastic mask that you put over your mouth which would provide light forces at night to pull your teeth back inwards. It would also force you to have lip seal.
• If your upper incisors move backward, your lower flaring teeth will follow.

Can you make a picture of your lower teeth and measure inter-canine width on both upper and lower palate?

You need something like this to happen(hope you don't mind, otherwise I'll remove it):

The only movement I did was move your teeth backwards, as you can see the whole mandible will follow forward once your lower teeth move backward.

Before you give up give this a try:

1. Measure your ICW on upper, lower teeth.
2. Make pictures of your lower teeth.
3. Measure how much forward your upper and lower teeth are extending.
4. Do these measurements everyday, make pictures every week.
5. Then train your orbicularis oris like crazy every-day, your teeth are protruding so much it won't impact your maxilla, only your teeth.
6. Make some kind of elastic string and sleep with it, make sure it forces a lip seal and provides forces on the outside edges(what you bite food with) of your incisors, especially the lower incisors.
7. Avoid chewing, I am very skeptical of chewing, it seems to be extremely detrimental to aesthetics. It pushes your mandible backward, grows your mandible which further pushes gonion backward, causes your upper face to rotate CW, causes your lower jaw to decrease in height and all this for slightly increased ramus widt, which is invisible anyway and decreased gonial angle? Lol.

Check in on your progress over 3 months. Use accurate millimeter precision measurements. If you don't see any retraction of teeth at all, then consider giving up.

BTW, I believe I have a similar issue to yours, I chewed a lot and this happened(though in your case it may be anything, tongue thrust, chewing, bruxism, weird tongue posture, weak orbicularis muscles):

My lower incisors moved downwards a lot and slightly forward, it's very mild to your case, but still...