Premolar extraction...
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Premolar extraction reversal treatment

17 Posts
7 Users
Posts: 2
Topic starter

Hi all,

I’m thinking of proceeding with the premolar extraction reversal treatment.

As I am aware they put in implants when the spaces are open. However I’m not looking to get implants as I’d rather They move my molars forward to fill the space as I have heard this is an alternative option.

Any thoughts?

Posted : 13/12/2019 7:17 am
entelechy and entelechy reacted
Posts: 1028

@anon477 It can sink the eyes back.  If there’s a tends to get filled a bit with the eyes.  So...I’d prob get the implants.

Posted : 16/12/2019 6:23 pm
Posts: 2
Topic starter


Ah, thought so..

So much money for fixing a mistake :/

Do you reckon I should just mew instead? 

Posted : 18/12/2019 3:24 am
Posts: 292

How does this kind of treatment work? I suppose you extracted your teeth since you lacked oral space, so does that mean you are going to expand your palate somehow before having the implants?

Posted : 18/12/2019 9:12 pm
Posts: 113

Would anyone be up for spending five minutes to take a survey on your experience of premolar extraction consequences?    Here's the survey:  


Posted : 26/03/2020 2:45 am
Posts: 113

@loliboly  actually that is not always the case:  the jaws could naturally have grown more but are stunted from growing due to the elastic bands (indeed the president of the American Association of Orthodontics sternly recommended that extractions be done only after age 15, when the jaws are fully grown).

But you have a good point.   To do reversal you actually have to reverse not only  the teeth missing, but expand the jaws so as to get back the necessary tongue space.      Getting the implants involves moving teeth: the incisors forward and the molars backward which will also "widen" the mouth as these need to tilt out in order to move.






Posted : 26/03/2020 2:49 am
Posts: 113

please help me out and take this survey if you have already had premolar extractions:   it's to get statistics on how many get negative consequences  for advocacy work to help victims get reimbursed for reversal costs.



Posted : 11/05/2020 12:14 am
Posts: 1

@darkindigo Can you clarify what you mean by this? I seem to be misunderstanding a bit. I had ALF appliance at the age of 17-18 in 2012 and while it somewhat worked, I think the results were limited due to me not knowing how to maintain correct oral posture. I have gaps not quite the size of a full premolar where the premolars usually are. What does this mean exactly with what you're saying? 

Posted : 12/05/2020 8:35 pm
Posts: 277
Posted by: @entelechy

indeed the president of the American Association of Orthodontics sternly recommended that extractions be done only after age 15, when the jaws are fully grown

Boy ... that just makes my blood boil.  They ripped my four out at age 11.  I don't blame my parents, because they could never have known ... but this really pisses me off at the entire field of Orthodontics.

Hopefully the DNA appliance can reverse some of this damage that I've apparently suffered with for decades.

Posted : 26/05/2020 10:27 pm
Posts: 113

Yes, I used to blame my mother---until I realized this scandal was far bigger than she.   Extraction consequences have been known in medical literature since 1940 when the procedure was invented.   In 1986, there was a lawsuit, where a girl won 1.3 million dollars for her "mutilated" jaws due to extraction retraction.

Nobody should have had this procedure after this 1986. verdict   Want to make your blood boil more?  The American Association of Orthodontics commissioned articles after the lawsuit to deny any consequences to the jaws of extraction consequences.   They paid off dozens of researchers.    They wanted to prevent copy cat lawsuits.   50% of all kids in braces had had this procedure by 1986.    After the lawsuit, without a word, it dropped to 25%.

My own blood boils constantly about this:   am preparing a class action law suit in the US.   

Did you ever take my survey?   All responders get a detailed overview that describes all the consequences of extraction orthodontics, the history of the scandal and the class action law suit.

If you have already taken it, send me an email, and I will send you the updated report.

If not, please do take it and post it on.   It's up to 490 respondents: 67% of which are unhappy with the aesthetic  results.  More than 80% report the same four symptoms.

Important to take===  once I get to 1000 respondents, will be launching the class action.   Everyone should have their reversal costs paid for by the American Association of Orthodontics.


Here it is:  please forward on your social media.  




Posted : 27/05/2020 12:25 am
Posts: 113

@loliboly  I review the pros and negatives of implants versus pushing teeth forward in my review of reversal procedures (sent to all survey responders).

I interviewed about 40 doctors on this question.  There are pros and negatives to each approach



Posted : 27/05/2020 12:27 am
Posts: 14


hi, I’ve taken the survey and haven’t received the results. I sent you an email about it as well. Please, if you could update me on how the process of pursuing the class action law suit is going, I’m very curious to know. 

Posted : 09/04/2021 7:35 am
Posts: 113

@marp96.   sorry you did not receive the results.   Here is a link to the newest version of my report on the Consequences of Premolar Extraction/Retraction


Posted : 30/05/2021 7:58 pm
Posts: 113

@blackbear. Dear Blackbear, I am on the same page with you as to what has to be done to put an end to extraction "therapy" (as it is termed), and the urgency in doing so.   Your idea to go outside the specialty and create teams of scientists and doctors from other disciplines to investigate the actual consequences of extraction orthodontics is excellent.  As we know, orthodontics is not controlled or evaluated by any other specialty except orthodontists, and they lack the knowledge base (little medical background, no knowledge of the body, no mathematical or engineering skills) to have the competence to evaluate the consequences of their work.     The problem with getting a team, however, is money.   It would take more than a million dollar investment to get even a small team together working win such a project.   

My own way of re-creating that team effect (not for research, but at least for the sake of dissemination of knowledge)  is a website I am launching where I will be asking doctors from a variety of specialties--ENTs, maxillofacial surgeons, sleep doctors and orthodontists---to give their evaluation of the effects of premolar extractions.   I will also be asking victims of extraction orthodontics to give their testimonies as well. 

By any chance are you in a medical or dental field?  I ask because your knowledge seems very grounded, and detailed.     I welcome all contributors to my website.

I agree there is not a minute to be lost as each day new children are getting mutilated and destined to suffer compromised physical health and in many a blow to their self-esteem, due to the changes to their face.

However, alone I can only do so much.    My report (which I believe you must have received if you happened on my survey) was 2 years of research and work, collaborating with dozens of doctors.   At least it brings together all the extant research that amply proves that extraction orthodontics is.a mutilation of the skull, with effects on breathing, standing, speaking, and the cervical spine.

To further research and create a team dedicated to going deeper into the nefarious effects of this modern societally condoned method of amputation and science-fiction fiddling with children's skulls would be a great next step, but currently unfeasible.

The survey is useful as a start to get the numbers necessary to warrant getting funding for future awareness projects and to lobby governments to do their own investigation, with the aim to bring the control of orthodontic standards of care into hands other than orthodontists.  

It is a 9 billion dollar industry, so yes it will be a huge fight.


Posted : 30/05/2021 8:21 pm
Posts: 14

@entelechy thank you! Also, you said you reviews the pros and cons of implants vs pushing teeth forward in a review of reversal procedures. Can you send that info to me as well or post the link? Also, please let me know if there is any way I can help with this process. I want to be active in supporting the effort that you’re doing to bring awareness and change regarding this issue. 

Posted : 31/05/2021 12:04 pm
Posts: 113

@marp96.  Would love your help!   thank you.  Here is my email---and I can send you my rough version of "overview of reversal procedures" which includes a discussion of moving molars forward or implants.

One way I could really use help at this time is if you could please post my survey on random sites---such as college alumni Facebook page, or neighborhood list serves, or sports clubs--- anywhere random.  As up to 40% of people in braces have had extractions, you throw a stone and it will hit.     As a professor, I once discussed this issue with my class of 20 people:  5 students had had extractions, 3 realized they had symptoms (such as FHP). 

It is much more interesting actually to get the random results as the people are not the "elite" who know already how their body has been affected, but people for whom this is all new and surprising.   The statistics on how many random takers report symptoms is about 30-40%, versus 90% when the survey is posted on sites like this one.  Already 30-40% is a huge percentage, and as it is more statistically 'predictable", stronger to make a case to stop Premolar Extraction as a dangerous and abusive method of treatment.


here is the survey!


and my email. <[email protected]>


Posted : 31/05/2021 4:39 pm
Posts: 113



here is a study I invented - no joke.  I may be able to find a financial backer for it.   Although I doubt I will get many takers for the study.





Posted : 02/06/2021 2:37 pm
Whole Body Breathing