Posted by: Demir

  I also have some pictures, but how do I post them, I can only post one?

They tried to introduce a file attachment system for multiple uploads per post, but it wasn't working, so they have reverted back to the basic system for now (  /community/community/main-forum/fixed-anterior-growth-guidance-appliance-fagga-holy-grail-gonial-angle-change-maxilla-movement-forwards-and-palate-widening-without-surgery/paged/13/#post-6009 ). In the meantime, you could use an outside service like imgur and put links to the images in your post, or you could just make multiple posts with one image in each post.

Your case sounds complicated, so I suspect it will be hard to give you specific advice even with images. With a class II division II malocclusion, your upper incisors are retroclined toward the retruded mandible.Generally, intraoral elastics can close a class II malocclusion but in a way that is counterproductive to upward and forward maxillary growth and overall aesthetics. Maybe you should look for an orthodontist who is open to alternative strategies. 

As I said, this is a complicated situation in the middle of treatment, so it's hard to know what to recommend. I'm not an expert. I don't think the Herbst would be any better than elastics since both would exert backward and downward forces on your maxilla. I'm also skeptical of the idea of using both a palate expander and braces together. What kind of expander is it? If it is a basic schwarz-style, don't the wires of the expander impinge on the braces? Transverse expansion might help some, especially if you struggle to fit your tongue on the roof of your mouth, but in theory we want upward and forward remodeling of the maxilla to create space for the mandible to swing into place. This is far easier said than done once most of your growth is already complete. I am curious what a myobrace would do for a class II division II malocclusion.

Thanks for your input @Apollo, I attached the picture of the expander, wasn't really sure how it's called but I guess it's a basic schwarz. I really do not have enough space for my tongue to fit so that was my main goal when I put it in. At first I struggled quite a bit to put the expander in, but I managed. The wires fit somehow, barely though, but I managed to get both the expander and braces in at the same time. My molars were getting more distance between them, but they also hurt like hell. After my last appointment, 3-4 days I couldn't eat almost anything because of the pain in molars, and it almost felt like my top right molar was moving a bit. That's what scared me and kind of discouraged me about putting it in again, I don't want to ruin the teeth. I just looked into myobrace, seems to me that it would not be able to fix such a "big" problem, only looks like it works with younger children and some smaller dental missalignments, but I might be mistaken. Do you think there is any good online consultation where I could maybe try to get these answers, because I feel like if I start using the elastics(which I should be using right now) it won't do me any good, and if I don't and I don't communicate about it with my ortho, my treatment would take a lot longer before he figures it out by himself.

Posted by: Demir

Thanks for your input @Apollo, I attached the picture of the expander, wasn't really sure how it's called but I guess it's a basic schwarz. I really do not have enough space for my tongue to fit so that was my main goal when I put it in. At first I struggled quite a bit to put the expander in, but I managed. The wires fit somehow, barely though, but I managed to get both the expander and braces in at the same time. My molars were getting more distance between them, but they also hurt like hell. After my last appointment, 3-4 days I couldn't eat almost anything because of the pain in molars, and it almost felt like my top right molar was moving a bit. That's what scared me and kind of discouraged me about putting it in again, I don't want to ruin the teeth. I just looked into myobrace, seems to me that it would not be able to fix such a "big" problem, only looks like it works with younger children and some smaller dental missalignments, but I might be mistaken. Do you think there is any good online consultation where I could maybe try to get these answers, because I feel like if I start using the elastics(which I should be using right now) it won't do me any good, and if I don't and I don't communicate about it with my ortho, my treatment would take a lot longer before he figures it out by himself.

Yeah, this looks like a basic schwarz expander, which is what I used with decent results. Do you know what your intermolar width is? If you struggle to fit your tongue on your palate, it is likely that a removable expander would be helpful for you. However, I don't think it is wise to use at the same time as your braces. The only online consultations I know of are with Dr. Mew. I am sure he could give you more detailed advice, but I think it is relatively expensive and there's a limit to what he can do remotely. The myobrace is definitely more effective in younger children, but they claim it can still help older teens and adults including cases with malocclusion, not just misalignment. You could use their self assessment tool to see if it might be suitable for your case ( http://old.myobrace.com/self-assessment ). If you are going to change your treatment plan, you should be upfront with your orthodontist. There's no point in continuing to pay for appointments while hiding the fact that you aren't doing what they advise. In the long run, it would be relatively easy to let the orthodontist close your overbite and upright your retroclined incisors, but you might not be happy with the effect on your facial form, be prone to airway restriction, and require a retainer in perpetuity to avoid crowding and relapse. It will be significantly harder and require much more self-determination to try alternative methods, and it sounds like there aren't a lot of options for professional help in your country outside mainstream orthodontics.

Thank you so much for engaging with me in this conversation, it has been really helpful. I think what I am going to do is try to talk with my orthodontist and see if there is any other way I could solve this problem, and if he's open to do it, if not I will probably just try to seek help from another one. I'm ditching the elastics for good and what's the point of fixing the bite if your facial form suffers on the other end, there has to be an alternative to it. I contacted this one doctor from USA who said he would solve the problem by expanding the upper arch, then the lower one and then bringing the mandible forward with an appliance, so it seems there are alternative ways of doing it. I am pretty determined in fixing my state and will try to implement methods on this site regarding oral and overall body posture, but will avoid the expanders while my braces are still in, and wait for them to come out. After that going to try an appliance to widden the palate and continue mewing. Also I am thikning if I might have sleep apnea or if my airway is restricted because for the last 2 years I have been constantly tired, sleepy during daytime, it was really hard to concentrate and study even in highschool, now that I'm going to start college I think I should try to bring this problem up aswell because no damn elastics are going to help me breathe lol.