Hey guys!
I have 2 topics I wanted to bring up...
Firstly, at this juncture, I can not afford to get an adequate expander that doesn't simply tip my teeth out; but, my arch is so high in my palate, its hard to push out! Is it helpful to use the tip of my tongue to push out where I need every so often? What do you all do about that, barring appliance?
Secondly,when I look through my old pictures and reminisce **curse the heavens** that I have always had such a noticeable long face; I often wonder--does the head expand? So much of my bone inadequacy is visible in my temples and the overall shape of my head?? I'll post pics someday.
With time your tongue expands the palate and it can fit itself more in there as the expansion happens.
Suction it to the top and focus on keeping it wherever it lands. Over time it will move forward more and more closer to the incisive papilla. When I first started my tongue could only realistically go to the middle of my palate. But it did expand it to where now it can sit beneath one row of rugae before it reaches the incisive papilla. This was a slow process but not that slow for me. Took 4 months.
Appliances get quicker results but they are expensive. Your tongue can achieve the same if you really put forth the effort; it just takes longer.
In terms of long face, as the maxilla comes forward the mandible does too. This makes your lower third more pronounced which balances a long midface. So your ratio would theoretically improve. I know mine has in just 4 months. My lower third used to be shorter than my middle third (nose to forehead). It was quite neotenous looking and old looking at the same time (worst combo). Always had to wear facial hair. Now as my jaw has come forward and my ratio is less in favor of my midface, facial hair becomes less necessary. Of course this is just my own example but I say hang in there.
What's wrong with your expander? Why don't you just expand using your hands/tongue and use the expander as a retainer at night?
Hey Axilla,
I did respond to your inquiry a while ago about my expander, it didn't really work out for me...infact it fully receded.
Because I didn't know how efficient that was, or if you could. My expander tends to rest at the root of my teeth and it's flared my teeth out if I expand too much. I was nervous to wear it at night in case my mouth wanted to expand past it.
Has the finger thing worked for you?
I think that was another user who you responded to before, but I read that post. It makes sense that it would all reverse if you stopped using the expander because I've read that it can take months for changes to solidify.
Why does your expander rest at the root of your teeth? Was your impression not great or was the expander poorly made? Did it simply drop down when your palate became less vaulted?
You can adjust the expander by filing down the acrylic with a nail file.
Wearing it at night isn't a big deal, most expansion probably happens during the day while you are consciously mewing.
The finger thing works. I just use gentle pressure with my thumbs against the vaulted part of my palate to create some expansion a few times a day, and if I keep this up I can definitely feel that my palate is more expanded, but it always goes away overnight while I'm sleeping, which is why I am ordering an expander to use as a retainer at night.
The expander will definitely cause tipping if you just rely on the screw to do all the work for you or if its not hitting the right part of your palate, but there are ways to fix these things. I don't know if you should give up on it just yet.
Yeah, it was me who asked for an update about your expander, Colette.
Hi Colette, can you update us on your experience with your expander? Have you continued to use it? Have you had any relapse?
I think an overdeveloped mentalis is a common element of orofacial muscle dysfunction treated by myofunctional therapists. Sorry I haven't saved specific links, but I seem to remember some of the myofunctional exercise videos on youtube mentioning this. I think you are right that swallowing without mentalis activation should help.
Hey Apollo,
I have had relapse. I relied on my expander solely and upon reaching its maxes (which weren't very vast) I took it out as I thought my teeth were tipping. I felt like the expander would inhibit my further growth and cant viably use it as a "retainer" if I expect my maxilla to get past that degree of expansion.
I have just started mewing hard, really, over the last couple weeks. I have noticed some subtle changes, but am not sure, because after even an hour of cognizant pushing and pressing, I feel like I see change; and upon being lax for an hour, I feel like I see devolution.
Is it possible to turn the screw in the opposite direction to bring the sides of the expander back together? Since you've had regression, you might have to close the expander all or most of the way, and then start again. As Allixa mentioned, it is possible to file off the excess acrylic as you advance and to bend out the labial bow to adjust the expander to the changing contour of your palate and avoid pressure against the teeth. I wrote up a post on the thread about my routine today wondering how many mm of expansion are possible with a single expander based on the limitations of adjusting the acrylic framework and the length of the screw. I still haven't gotten as far as you did with the 2.75mm of expansion you reported initially ( /community/community/main-forum/palate-expander-update/#post-185 ). If you haven't already checked out this thread ( /community/community/main-forum/you-can-easily-shave-down-a-palate-expander-to-refit-it-to-your-mouth/#post-619 ) on making adjustments, you might find it helpful.
With time your tongue expands the palate and it can fit itself more in there as the expansion happens.
Suction it to the top and focus on keeping it wherever it lands. Over time it will move forward more and more closer to the incisive papilla. When I first started my tongue could only realistically go to the middle of my palate. But it did expand it to where now it can sit beneath one row of rugae before it reaches the incisive papilla. This was a slow process but not that slow for me. Took 4 months.
Appliances get quicker results but they are expensive. Your tongue can achieve the same if you really put forth the effort; it just takes longer.
In terms of long face, as the maxilla comes forward the mandible does too. This makes your lower third more pronounced which balances a long midface. So your ratio would theoretically improve. I know mine has in just 4 months. My lower third used to be shorter than my middle third (nose to forehead). It was quite neotenous looking and old looking at the same time (worst combo). Always had to wear facial hair. Now as my jaw has come forward and my ratio is less in favor of my midface, facial hair becomes less necessary. Of course this is just my own example but I say hang in there.
Hey Meltcel!
Sorry I missed your comment earlier. I appreciate you giving me a thoughtful answer, and encouraging me to hang in there. I always try hard for a couple weeks and then forget; it almost seems like progress comes and goes that quickly. I will definitely keep my tongue up there despite the discomfort, I know it's worth it. Without this forum I would forget every week!!
I think that was another user who you responded to before, but I read that post. It makes sense that it would all reverse if you stopped using the expander because I've read that it can take months for changes to solidify.
Why does your expander rest at the root of your teeth? Was your impression not great or was the expander poorly made? Did it simply drop down when your palate became less vaulted?
You can adjust the expander by filing down the acrylic with a nail file.
Wearing it at night isn't a big deal, most expansion probably happens during the day while you are consciously mewing.
The finger thing works. I just use gentle pressure with my thumbs against the vaulted part of my palate to create some expansion a few times a day, and if I keep this up I can definitely feel that my palate is more expanded, but it always goes away overnight while I'm sleeping, which is why I am ordering an expander to use as a retainer at night.
The expander will definitely cause tipping if you just rely on the screw to do all the work for you or if its not hitting the right part of your palate, but there are ways to fix these things. I don't know if you should give up on it just yet.
Hey!!
Sorry about that, I just remembered double L's and an A; it was Apollo. So I did not leave it in 3 months after to solidify it; maybe I can try it again. As my arch came down it shoved the expander down around my teeth. Unfortunately they made the metal part of the expander at the TOP of the mold, so I can-not file it down. Maybe it was a ploy so I would buy another ;p It might also have been cheaply made since I got it online.
Thank you!!
Yeah, it was me who asked for an update about your expander, Colette.
Hi Colette, can you update us on your experience with your expander? Have you continued to use it? Have you had any relapse?
I think an overdeveloped mentalis is a common element of orofacial muscle dysfunction treated by myofunctional therapists. Sorry I haven't saved specific links, but I seem to remember some of the myofunctional exercise videos on youtube mentioning this. I think you are right that swallowing without mentalis activation should help.
Hey Apollo,
I have had relapse. I relied on my expander solely and upon reaching its maxes (which weren't very vast) I took it out as I thought my teeth were tipping. I felt like the expander would inhibit my further growth and cant viably use it as a "retainer" if I expect my maxilla to get past that degree of expansion.
I have just started mewing hard, really, over the last couple weeks. I have noticed some subtle changes, but am not sure, because after even an hour of cognizant pushing and pressing, I feel like I see change; and upon being lax for an hour, I feel like I see devolution.
Is it possible to turn the screw in the opposite direction to bring the sides of the expander back together? Since you've had regression, you might have to close the expander all or most of the way, and then start again. As Allixa mentioned, it is possible to file off the excess acrylic as you advance and to bend out the labial bow to adjust the expander to the changing contour of your palate and avoid pressure against the teeth. I wrote up a post on the thread about my routine today wondering how many mm of expansion are possible with a single expander based on the limitations of adjusting the acrylic framework and the length of the screw. I still haven't gotten as far as you did with the 2.75mm of expansion you reported initially ( /community/community/main-forum/palate-expander-update/#post-185 ). If you haven't already checked out this thread ( /community/community/main-forum/you-can-easily-shave-down-a-palate-expander-to-refit-it-to-your-mouth/#post-619 ) on making adjustments, you might find it helpful.
Apollo!
Thank you for the response. I hope you're doing well. I am thinking I will start over again and then let it stay there for a couple months to solidify the progress and then maybe I'll ditch the retainer to expand past it. It's impossible to shave down becuase they put the metal turning device so high up on the mold...but I will see what I can do! Thanks for attaching that post.
Have a good one
Posted by: Colette
It's impossible to shave down becuase they put the metal turning device so high up on the mold...but I will see what I can do!
Hi Colette, I don't have a lot of excess acrylic immediately above the screw mechanism of my expander either. It's maybe about 1mm thick in that area. However, for me, the steepest parts of the expander are in the area posterior to the screw, and the acrylic has a thicker profile there. I'm only at 2mm of expansion so I haven't reached the point where I need to remove acrylic from the top yet. I suspect it will be challenging to know exactly what area needs to be filed down. Our goal is to keep the sides of the expander in contact with the alveolar ridge rather than slipping down to the level of the teeth. There's a good chance we won't be able to turn the screw to its maximum expansion, but we should be able to make it last at least a little longer by removing some of the acrylic.
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