I've been in Lyon, France for about three weeks now and seen a lot of the city, and at different times, and wow! I would estimate that 50–70% of the French people here have (by American standards) outstanding forward growth, and much more commonly than in Paris. I'm talking faces so well developed that 90% of the bottom edge of the mandible is in front of their neck and within 10 degrees of parallel to the ground. Excellent orbital support & prominent cheekbones. I mean really, really, well developed faces. Not perfect by any means, but the people here are gorgeous, phenotype aside.
What's different about Lyon, France? For starters, it is the gastronomic capital of France, and some say the world. Lyon is in the center of a number of France's "best" regions for certain agriculture, and as a consequence, nouvelle cuisine was virtually invented here in the 1960s. I have been both living and dining with a local family and eating out, and the food here largely adheres to Weston A. Price Foundation principles. (High quantities of healthy fats, organ meats, more vegetables than the Standard American Diet, etc.)
EDIT: Forgot to add: I've been eating like locals, and it's maybe slightly more chewy than American food.
France has the lowest rate of breastfeeding in the West but there is a cultural stigma against holding the mouth open at rest. There is a saying here, « ferme ta bouche, tu vas attraper des mouches » which means: close your mouth, you're going to catch flies like that. I have seen very few mouth breathers here. I could not easily find data on the rate of tongue tie or tongue tie surgery (but I did find this link that claims that the most common problem behind poor breastfeeding is not tongue tie, as is widely thought, but low maternal milk production).
What I think is particularly striking is that from what I can tell, typically those French people whose faces are not very well-developed are very (by American standards) recessed! It's either-or here. I have no idea if that is correlated with socioeconomic status or whatever but their phenotype does look the same.
Finally, not all well-developed faces are attractive faces. They are, on balance, much more attractive, and certainly much more striking, but I have seen many people here whose faces are among the most correctly forward-grown, but are markedly less beautiful than those whose faces are not. I read on here or Lookism or somewhere that the primary factor in facial beauty is not correct development per se, but features in harmony with each other (distance ratios etc.). I think he was right. Even Mew himself has said in a video that those considered most beautiful today (celebrities etc.) have "okay" facial development. Beauty is more complicated than many of us think it is. (Obviously, though, symmetry most often occurs with correct facial development.)
I'll update this in a few months if my impression changes.
Facial beauty = ideal spacing of features according to the golden ratio. Yes maxillary forward growth will affect this but not as much as people think. Things like square jaw, low gonial angle, eyes hooded or deep set, forehead slope realistically have no effect on facial aesthetics really
Interesting observations, thanks for sharing.
@eddiemoney Of course everything about the face will affect the way the face is perceived. You can't pick out single qualities and decide "this affects beauty, this does not, this does...". As long as we are talking about facial aesthetics, then, by definition, everything about the face will affect it. Every quality is relevant and meaningful.
Were you right, it would mean that people of identical proportions would be perceived as being identically beautiful regardless of the differences in their minute details (such as the eye-hooding you mention). In reality, often these details either make or break the face. In addition to raw proportions, details too determine how the face comes together. Moreover, qualities like gonial angle and forehead slope ARE qualities of proportion, since they influence shape. In practice, that's what proportions are: shapes and their relationships to each other. Wouldn't you agree?
You sometimes come across as if you were so knowledgeable that explaining yourself was beneath you. Merely making claims doesn't contribute much. I'm not telling you to change your behavior, just making sure that you are aware of this impression you give, because it's unlikely to be something that you have intended.
Very interesting observations. You covered their facial form quite well but what about their teeth. Did you notice any crowding on some of the people you observed with good facial form? The reason I ask is that what you observed could possibly have something to do with their phenotype over their habits.
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
I recently spent some time around people from the Netherlands and northern Germany and I thought they had craniofacial development far better than the average American.
Interesting that you mention diet in Lyon. I've read so much about mechanical factors in jaw development but I wonder whether diet is equally important.
OP updated
Very interesting observations. You covered their facial form quite well but what about their teeth. Did you notice any crowding on some of the people you observed with good facial form? The reason I ask is that what you observed could possibly have something to do with their phenotype over their habits.
Why would phenotype affect teeth crowding? Everything we know from Mew and the WAPF suggests that there is no such phenotype—it's imperfect development.
Very interesting observations. You covered their facial form quite well but what about their teeth. Did you notice any crowding on some of the people you observed with good facial form? The reason I ask is that what you observed could possibly have something to do with their phenotype over their habits.
Why would phenotype affect teeth crowding? Everything we know from Mew and the WAPF suggests that there is no such phenotype—it's imperfect development.
What I meant is that phenotype could affect the appearance of good facial form. Someone with a phenotype that has genetically very wide zygomatic arches will still show good face width even when recessed. In this case the only way to know is to check his teeth. If there is crowding that's a good sign he has a problem even though his face does not show it as much.
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
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