He asked for pics so I sent him a ceph and side profile, he comes back with this
"You need a clinical exam to find out what is best for you. I can not assess a tx plan on a ceph and profile photo. I comprehend your need of better breathing and cure your sleep apnea. Your ceph and profile view show that both maxilla and mandible are retrusive. Therefore, you may need more than just MSE and facemask therapy. Please think of this situation. Let's suppose that we can protract your maxilla with MSE and FM. What will be the overjet once it is done? Where will be the mandible once the maxilla is protracted?"
At this point i just don't know what to tell him, surgery is not an option for me and will do nothing for my nasal breathing. What do I do? He is a plane ticket away btw
Just tell him you’ll get BSSO or DO if the bite is fucked up
Whatever happened to "the mandible swings out and upwards quite naturally to meet the new position of the maxilla," or so I read quite often on forums like this? He seems to be suggesting that your mandible would be left behind if they moved the maxilla forward. How does that work?
Whatever happened to "the mandible swings out and upwards quite naturally to meet the new position of the maxilla," or so I read quite often on forums like this? He seems to be suggesting that your mandible would be left behind if they moved the maxilla forward. How does that work?
The mandible will only autorotate if there is an adequate component of ‘upward’ displacement or ccw rotation of the maxillary complex. This happens somewhat naturally with FM, but largely the displacement is forward. In most cases though this isn’t even a problem since the mandible can just straight forward to a reasonable degree - I have had no problems with bite yet.
Then can I just pull at a pos 30 degree angle myself to create that upswing? I don't understand why orthos don't just use that more often
I don't see any problem in his response he raised a valid point that we discussed previously. When you expand the maxilla forward the mandible has to have a way to catch up, one of them could be surgery.
I think what he want to know is how much your mandible will move forward if any when the maxilla is moved forward. He just want's to plan properly.
By the way get the proper copy of your cephlometric x-ray. I want to try to do a Jefferson analysis on it. Let's see how much forward expansion you need according to that analysis based on your cranium dimensions.
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
Whatever happened to "the mandible swings out and upwards quite naturally to meet the new position of the maxilla," or so I read quite often on forums like this? He seems to be suggesting that your mandible would be left behind if they moved the maxilla forward. How does that work?
In Mewland it still happens :)
Kidding aside, there are few ways the mandible will move forward and upward naturally. One of them when it's released to come out and the other is with auto-rotation.
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
Then can I just pull at a pos 30 degree angle myself to create that upswing? I don't understand why orthos don't just use that more often
How are you going to pull +30 degrees? Lol. Rubberbands going through your skull?
The maxilla does not grow up and forward like that anyway. It has to grow forward in order to be able to move up.
Okay, but how am i going to get my maxilla upwards if im pulling at pos -30? I know there is a slight rotate upwards but how do i pull the entire thing up?
If we just keep pulling forward will the maxilla naturally go up like @abdulrahman just said?
Okay, but how am i going to get my maxilla upwards if im pulling at pos -30? I know there is a slight rotate upwards but how do i pull the entire thing up?
If we just keep pulling forward will the maxilla naturally go up like @abdulrahman just said?
LOL how am i supposed to know
Okay, but how am i going to get my maxilla upwards if im pulling at pos -30? I know there is a slight rotate upwards but how do i pull the entire thing up?
If we just keep pulling forward will the maxilla naturally go up like @abdulrahman just said?
LOL how am i supposed to know
Neither do I. What is it that I said that made you think you can pull your maxilla/mandible forward by yourself? I certainly don't think so.
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
@Abdulrahman nah im talking about using the mse with a facemask to pull my maxilla
@Varbrah I'm just reading this paper again https://www.identalogics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/8.The-Efficacy-of-Maxillary-Protraction-Protocols-With-the-Micro-Implant-Assisted-Rapid-Palatal-ExpanderMARPE-and-the-no_.pdf
And if I go with option C ANT-MI-FM Between roots of canine and first premolar and pull at -15 degrees to occlusal plane we can pull up and forwards with slight ccw rotation, the only difference is where the mse is placed, so it is possible to go up and forwards without "rubberbands going through your skull" lol
So i guess ill have to go pull forwards first at -30 like you did varbrah, then once thats done ill have to move the mse to a different position in my mouth and then use that to go further up and forwards. Now, this would all be great if the doc did this like im some sort of frankenstein project hahahaha
Why don’t you just follow the protocol as outlined by PROFESSIONALS who by the way aren’t idiots when it comes to this stuff as 95% of people on this forum have fooled themselves into believeing, and who are certainly smarter than you.
And no you cannot install the MSE anywhere other than your posterior palate. You are completely misinterpreting the studies which I suggest you read and actually try to understand, along with the limitations of the models used.
lol I didn't read the entire paper, all i wanted is just a little more upwards rotation and when i skimmed through it didn't seem that hard
Why don’t you just follow the protocol as outlined by PROFESSIONALS who by the way aren’t idiots when it comes to this stuff as 95% of people on this forum have fooled themselves into believeing, and who are certainly smarter than you.
And no you cannot install the MSE anywhere other than your posterior palate. You are completely misinterpreting the studies which I suggest you read and actually try to understand, along with the limitations of the models used.
Seconding this.
30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.
He is absolutely right. I think that the fact that he is showing such interest is positive. I just sent you a message.
So the mandible can't just jut forward to meet the new maxillary position? Seriously? I can jut my mandible forward considerably right now.
So the mandible can't just jut forward to meet the new maxillary position? Seriously? I can jut my mandible forward considerably right now.
I have proposed a theory and question about this here: /community/community/main-forum/posing-a-question-can-class-2-be-resolved-on-your-own/ I suspect the advancing the mandible along the mandibular plane is possible by chewing in a forward position that's comfortable... and over time it possibly may close an overjet. It's never been tested, though, and it's way out on a limb.
Seriously @FutureModel be greatful doctors are taking your case seriously. You have a significant case of rescission and that's making them interested to help you, but they need to do their work properly. The only thing you want to be clear with them is that you have great interest in esthetics and willing to go the long way to achieve the best outcome. Leave the rest for them.
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
Agree 100% with what everyone else is saying in this thread. Don't make it harder than it has to be bro
don't listen to these guys, forefill your dreams imo
don't listen to these guys, forefill your dreams imo
go back to lookism
So the mandible can't just jut forward to meet the new maxillary position? Seriously? I can jut my mandible forward considerably right now.
Nah that’s bs. SUGR1 already has stated that your mandible condyles will always be a centerpoint for forward growth. He’s stated that many doctors report class 2 patients being more class 3 after undergoing sifinificabt splint therapy for the lower jaw. The FAGGA can also bring the lower jaw forward as much as it needs to be. I don’t think I surgery is needed or ever worth it, whoever tells you to get surgery is out of their mind and hasn’t read the horrible reviews about the surgeries.
So the mandible can't just jut forward to meet the new maxillary position? Seriously? I can jut my mandible forward considerably right now.
Nah that’s bs. SUGR1 already has stated that your mandible condyles will always be a centerpoint for forward growth. He’s stated that many doctors report class 2 patients being more class 3 after undergoing sifinificabt splint therapy for the lower jaw. The FAGGA can also bring the lower jaw forward as much as it needs to be. I don’t think I surgery is needed or ever worth it, whoever tells you to get surgery is out of their mind and hasn’t read the horrible reviews about the surgeries.
What exactly is bs? Seems we are in agreement
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