Hello there everyone. I came here from breakthematrix, just after discovering that old forum.
I want to introduce myself and describe my situation.
Im a 25 years old male with noticeable craniofacial distrophy, like millions of men (and women) of my age.
My story is as it follows:
1. I developed a somewhat narrow palate during my chilhood and weak masseters because of lack of breastfeeding as a baby, insufficient chewing, soft foods, bad oral and body posture and some tongue tie.
2. I was treated with orthodontics to align my crooked teeth during my 13-14s. I was taken to the "best orthodontist of my city", who never took care of my narrow palate, and instead, focused its efforts to make my teeth "straight".
Because of my agenesis in both of my bicuspids, after finishing my treatment I had to choose between pulling the teeth back to close the gaps, or having two implants (this last one scared me a lot in the past), and I choosed the last one (I know, a very bad idea, but I was completely unaware of the dangers of retractive treatment).
3. Just after finishing the process, I started to notice some unpleasant changes in my face and body like:
-Elongated face
-bigger and droppy nose with bump
-bigger nasolabial folds
-Receded jaw
-Lack of cheekbones
-tonsil stones
-worsening of my facial asymmetry
-A little narrowing of my airways (not too extreme, as I was told after seeing my x-rays last year)
4. Because of my past lifesstyle, I had weak neck muscles, and my body posture also worsened with the time. I have a very dolicochephalic skull, and the forward head posture together with the lack of muscles, gives to my head a very narrow look.
I also have to add, that I have some slight scoliosis and kyphosis, so I had to face some back pains since my early teens.
5. After discovering John and mike Mew work, together with William Hang website and videos, every part of the puzzle started to fit.
-First of all, I got my tongue frenulum cutted with laser. It was amazingly painless and quick. I didnt even feel the anesthesia shot.
-I contacted one of the few spanish odontologists who knows about orthotropics, and after having my consultation and one personal study of my case, I was recommended to start a palate expansion process with the leaf expander.
It makes semirapid expansion with slow activation, and I have a periodical appointment with him each 2-3 months.
-I was recommended to not start a process of reopening the spaces, and instead going ahead with this expansion process in the pallate, so I can have for the first time in my life enough tongue space. I was also advised that the expansion would be very modest, about 6mm. I told him to continue as far as my body allows it. Ill have to wear a retention wire in the back of my teeth after the process.
And here It is my plan:
-It doesnt matter for now If I choose to start the reopening of the spaces, as I must expand the palate anyway. Once I have finished this part, I can go with the reopening If I want.
-Once I have finished the expansion, I need some reccomendations about maxila protraction, as I think palatal expansion is not enough, and I could get amazing results and even some sinergy with the last process.
I think maxilla protraction could be a more confortable alternative to reopening spaces with brackets, so I can regain those milimmeters lost with the retraction process.
-I cannot practise with hard chewing gum while I wear my expander, so Ill have to wait until they remove it from my mouth, and I will start then with extreme mewing, mastika gum chewing, and focusing some of my gym exercises in my neck (even getting a steroid cycle so I can obtain a decent muscle hypertrophy in back, neck and masseters)
Today, Its almost impossible to find any kind of relevant information in my country (and in the entire spanish-hispanoamerican net!) about these topics, so this website looks for me like water in the dessert (even If I have to use google translator to check my spelling)
SO, thats all for now. I wait for your comments and opinions,
thx!
Hi Erix, please keep us posted about how your professional treatment progresses! It sounds like you have as much or more expertise on these topics as any of us. You mention that you might try extra-oral protraction after you have finished your palate expansion. I wonder if it might be more effective to do these simultaneously. It seems logical that the traction pulling up and forward might better engage the force of the expander pushing out on the palate, and the expansion of the palate might help loosen the other sutures.
Oh... I sent by mistake a complete message without being logged, and now that message is completely lost... So Ill try to remember as much as possibe from the last one.
Ill try to keep you informed about my progresses. By the way, once I have finished this palate expansion, Ill get new x-rays, and then, Ill ask my doctor to send me my skull 3d images (If possible). So, with a few screenshots of the models, I will post here the before and after of my maxila-palate (I think its a good evidence)
Im skeptic about trying maxilla protraction during the palatal expansion. My expander is not a removable appliance and It could break because of the forces or traction applied in its parts.
This is my expander:
https://www.jco-online.com/archive/2016/09/552/
On the other hand, Im not sure how It could affect to my progress If I apply some pressure with my thumb the most anterior part of my palate, as in theory, there is another suture right there (incisive suture):
Well, I think its time to update this thread.
I visited the doctor last week, and he told me he would remove my expander in September-October. I can say I havent seen a lot of bone change or drastic movements. Yes, theres some teeth movement, but my maxila looks almost the same. The only evidence for change, is that teeth from my upper jaw have now overtaken a bit the lower teeth. I was going to start a maxila protraction treatment with him, but it seems like he considers that I want to only move my teeth, where I want to see real bone change.
At least, with this little extra space that now I have from the expander after moving the teeth, I think I will be able to have correct tongue posture. I looking forward to start again with mastika gum and extreme sessions of mewing.
I was told to get a permanet retainer in the future, so I can maintain the changes in my upper teeth, but knowing I wouldnt be able to exert forces and move my bone because of that, Ive told my doctor to wait a little bit before putting a retainger, so he seems OK with that (Who knows If I never put it, so I can continue with mewing). An here it comes a question for the experts in this forum, Is possible to make changes in your facial shape while wearing a permanent retainer? Do you recommend me to have this retainer placed in my maxila?
I hadnt posted pics in the first messages, so I think Its time for that. As you can see, when I try to maintain a good posture, without tilting my head forwards, my jaw is "swallowed" under my neck. I think It is due to the fact that my maxilla is way too backwards. I hadnt uploaded any pics before, so here you have, so you can see how severe is my condition.
First photo is from November 2017, and the second one, February 2018. The third and fourth ones were taken today. The differences between these last photos, is that I force my jaw in front of the maxila, where I think It should be. It would look like maloclossion class 3, but Its due to the fact that my maxila is too backward. And even considering that, I look better from outside with my mouth closed, If we dont consider the maloclussion.
I wait for your comments. Regards.
An here it comes a question for the experts in this forum, Is possible to make changes in your facial shape while wearing a permanent retainer? Do you recommend me to have this retainer placed in my maxila?
Can you better describe the kind of permanent retainer the orthodontist is recommending? Does it cover the palate? Is it a wire than extends from molar to molar or is it just bonded to the lingual side of the anterior teeth like the picture below to prevent crowding?
The type of retainer will determine how much it restricts further improvement from tongue posture. Regardless, it might be advisable to use some kind of retainer for a few months to help stabilize your expansion before you start phasing it out and monitor for regression.
How many millimeters of expansion did you complete? These changes might be more evident in pictures from a front view.
I wouldn't recommend a steroid cycle if you want to build your neck. No need since proper posture will improve your sternocleidomastoid muscles in and of itself.
Enlarging your neck more past that can cause breathing problems since too much neck hypertrophy will compress your airway. You have been warned.
Also, why even do roids if you're not gonna compete in bodybuilding? Seems too high risk with minimal reward IMO
I wouldn't recommend a steroid cycle if you want to build your neck. No need since proper posture will improve your sternocleidomastoid muscles in and of itself.
Enlarging your neck more past that can cause breathing problems since too much neck hypertrophy will compress your airway. You have been warned.
Also, why even do roids if you're not gonna compete in bodybuilding? Seems too high risk with minimal reward IMO
Thanks for the advice, I didnt know that extra muscle might compress my airways. It is the first time Ive heard that. I thought it could lead to the opposite, because of an easier correction in the body posture thanks to the extra muscle. In that case, I will be cautious about that.
Can you better describe the kind of permanent retainer the orthodontist is recommending? Does it cover the palate? Is it a wire than extends from molar to molar or is it just bonded to the lingual side of the anterior teeth like the picture below to prevent crowding?
The type of retainer will determine how much it restricts further improvement from tongue posture. Regardless, it might be advisable to use some kind of retainer for a few months to help stabilize your expansion before you start phasing it out and monitor for regression.
How many millimeters of expansion did you complete? These changes might be more evident in pictures from a front view.
If I remember, I think It would be the retainer you attach in your message, that one consisting of a wire around the teeth; and also a plastic retainer during night.
Im not sure about the mms that Ive have obtanied, but I will ask that to my doctor in September. I could also upload a front photo of my teeth, so you can see how advanced are the molars now in comparaison with the lower ones.
Can you better describe the kind of permanent retainer the orthodontist is recommending? Does it cover the palate? Is it a wire than extends from molar to molar or is it just bonded to the lingual side of the anterior teeth like the picture below to prevent crowding?
The type of retainer will determine how much it restricts further improvement from tongue posture. Regardless, it might be advisable to use some kind of retainer for a few months to help stabilize your expansion before you start phasing it out and monitor for regression.
How many millimeters of expansion did you complete? These changes might be more evident in pictures from a front view.
If I remember, I think It would be the retainer you attach in your message, that one consisting of a wire around the teeth; and also a plastic retainer during night.
Im not sure about the mms that Ive have obtanied, but I will ask that to my doctor in September. I could also upload a front photo of my teeth, so you can see how advanced are the molars now in comparaison with the lower ones.
Check out this thread where I link a video from Mike Mew talking about retainers:
/community/community/case-discussions/retainer-needed/#
It sounds reasonable to me to use a permanent retainer bonded to just the anterior 4 to 6 teeth (like the picture above) to prevent crowding, and to use an essix-style retainer at night for several months to stabilize your expansion. Then start to phase out the essix retainer (every two nights, every three nights, once a week, etc.) and monitor for regression.
The essix retainer would restrict your tongue from further increasing your intermolar width during that time, but it would also prevent you from losing your progress. It wouldn't occupy the space of your palate so you can be practicing correct posture during that time, and it would still allow the tongue to exert an upward and forward force on the maxilla.
How do you feel after cutting your tongue tie any differences?
Check out this thread where I link a video from Mike Mew talking about retainers:
/community/community/case-discussions/retainer-needed/#
It sounds reasonable to me to use a permanent retainer bonded to just the anterior 4 to 6 teeth (like the picture above) to prevent crowding, and to use an essix-style retainer at night for several months to stabilize your expansion. Then start to phase out the essix retainer (every two nights, every three nights, once a week, etc.) and monitor for regression.
The essix retainer would restrict your tongue from further increasing your intermolar width during that time, but it would also prevent you from losing your progress. It wouldn't occupy the space of your palate so you can be practicing correct posture during that time, and it would still allow the tongue to exert an upward and forward force on the maxilla.
Thanks for the link. I think I have already watched that video in the past, when I was "studying" the entire orthotropics channel 😉
Considering my situation, I dont have any real crowding in my upper teeth. If I had a little bit when younger, It disappeared after my premolars were removed because of the agenesis and my teeth were then moved a little bit. If something, my right incisor is maybe 1/3 mm more forwards than the left one.
Where I can see something similar as "crowding" is in the lower jaw, where canines seem a little bit overtaking the lateral incisors. But not that much, you have to check it so closely that It is not that important.
My expander is exerting forces only into the molars, by the way.
How do you feel after cutting your tongue tie any differences?
I feel that my tongue has a wider range of movement. It can exert forces into the palate when I swallow, my pronounciation of R seems to have improved a little bit, I can move it farther from my mouth, and It should be easier for me to kiss right now xD
By the way, Im considering asking my doctor to give me the Biobloc stage III once he removes my expander, so I can exert forces agaisnt the palate for almost 24h a day, and correct my tongue posture, as I tend to drop it to the bottom even If I keep the mouth closed.
What to do you think? Id like to use this together with heavy masseter training for 1 hour daily.
So, Im getting my expander removed in less than one month.
Ive messaged the doctor, and he agreed to use a biobloc appliance instead of the typical retainer, so I can get the tongue pushed towards the pallate for the entire day while I wear this appliance.
I wanted to start with the biobloc III, but he said its a little bit difficult to adjust, and I should start with biobloc II until I can get adapted to biobloc III.
What do you think? Has anyone here used the biobloc II or III? I need some info/advice.
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