I am suspicious of any saggital expansion using a removable appliance in adults. For the same reason the FAGGA system is fixed in adults but a removable AGGA can be used in children, with the premaxillary suture fused, forward expansion with a removable appliance seems to cause mostly dental tipping. Maybe some of this is corrected with braces or aligners in a later stage, and maybe there is some net forward growth achieved. However, Ronny Ead documented his complications with a functional orthodontist using removable expanders ( /community/community/main-forum/cautionary-palate-expander-case/#post-1983 ), before he changed strategies and found a new orthodontist using the FAGGA system. That being said, I've had some pretty good success with exclusively transverse expansion using a removable palate expander. So far I've gained more than 4mm in intermolar width starting at 34mm. It is definitely easier to practice correct tongue posture now. So I think the treatment they are recommending for you might be useful, especially in the transverse direction, but I would resist turning the saggital screw too much to avoid the side effects Ronny Ead documented (teeth tipping, gingival recession, ulcers, etc.). My hope is that I will get more forward growth from my tongue as it becomes easier to maintain oral posture from the increased palate width.

I'm just getting started with orthotropic treatment myself. There is an element of uncertainty in any treatment available, but I feel confident that if it doesn't completely fix my problem, it will at least make it better. My dentist is using a crozat, which is similar to an alf, but it has a thicker wire and therefore produces higher forces. I'm about 3 weeks in and we're expanding sagitally and I already have a small overjet. I was fortunate enough in a way to not have my premolars extracted (of course I would be more fortunate if I never had Ortho in the first place), which I feel would increase the chances of success. 

Other than that, Nothing else to report, I'm assuming it'll be months before my sleep apnea issues are improved upon. To op, if you dont have about 10-15k to spend, have an approved lvi dentist in your area ( of which there are few) and have an sna angle below a certain threshold, agga will not be an option, and if that is the case, surgery or an orthotropist are pretty much your only options. 

24-36 months seems like a high number just to expand 6mm. To give you an example I expanded from 34.5 to 37mm in 8 months. It took 6 months for the first 1.5mm and 2 months for the next 1mm. I am using Damon braces and my doctor thinks I might need 6 more month to reach 40mm. That being said all my expansion has been dental with no tipping. Are your teeth at the maximum outer limit of your upper jaw? Is the doctor planning to move your teeth or to expand your jaw?

One more good out come that I can share with you is that my lower jaw has moved forward closing the gap with the upper. I moved from class II malocclision with 3mm overjet to proper class I occlusion. My lower jaw looks more prominent and proper in size relative to the upper. 

I was told that both upper and lower arches would be expanded 6 mm, and the time frame for this I have yet to determine.  I'd imagine that just the teeth would be expanded rather than the jaw itself, but I've heard that cheekbones become more prominent as a result of upper arch expansion.  Certainly wouldn't mind if the jaw became wider and more forward as a result of the expansion of the upper and lower arch, even though I'd elect to not go forward with using the saggital device, just the removable expansion device. 

Posted by: @gm993

Met with a local dentist who practices orthotropics to get professional opinion on appliances to reverse the effects of traditional extraction orthodontics.  I am a 25 year old male fyi.

The dentist did some measurements and (to very little surprise) have an upper intramolar palate width of 34mm, which does make it difficult to mew properly.  They said they could expand to 40 mm, but they say that forward movement of upper and lower jaws is limited (slow compared to that which would be observed in a child patient).  The facility does use the biobloc, but only on child patients.  For adults they don't use biobloc, but instead different kinds of palatal expanders, saggital forward-movement appliance, and braces OR clear trays to close gaps made in the middle of the mouth as the front teeth are moved forward.  The process is to take between 24-36 months.  I very much would like to get this done in addition to the mewing that I already practice, I'm just unsure of whether I will get the results I am expecting and do not want to let myself down in disappointment after the whole procedure is said and done.  

I'm thinking that once I am expanded to 40mm to fit the tongue, mewing will allow me to push my maxilla and mandible forward with proper tongue posture, compounded with the assistance from the orthotropic appliances.

Has anyone experienced positive and enhanced facial structure improvements from palatal expansion devices and saggital appliances?  Hoping to see some more pronounced cheekbones and a more forward upper and lower jaw.  Just need to be convinced to rip off the band-aid and go forward with it.  It's a 2-3 year journey towards excellence (hopefullyHi

Hell GM993---  I am an extraction victim and have been researching solutions 24/7 for the last three years.  Interviewed over 200 doctors from Bill Hang to the Mews to Derek Mahony to Won Moon.   I can give  you an overview of everything I learned, if you like.    Could you please take the below survey on consequences?    The results are going to be used for lobbying work to get research going on reversal techniques. 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfES0DTiu4DxUvaKIePxDXnTNZYF6GMTZN9DO0uE8xAYec6nw/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1

I can send you the two page overview I send all respondents on every technique from FAGGA to MSE.

As for myself:  I ultimately chose MSE to get the expansion because my imw was so narrow it was driving me crazy.    It got me expansion within a month.  Changes the face too: brings forward the cheekbones.   I am  now looking into SFOT for advancing the front teeth.  FAGGA won't cut it for me--and (as I describe in my overview to survey respondents) SFOT may permit the substantial 5 mm advancement I need.

I have recently heard terrible results about saggital.

The other questions is whether you will open for implants  --discuss this all too.

Please also pass on the survey to friends when finished.     Now at 200 respondents.  With 300,  it will have clout to make a change.

thanks

@gm993

not true about the cheekbones becoming prominent with just dental expansion.   Look at post photos of people who had saggital and implants.  They have forward mouths in RECESSED faces.

this the major reason I did MSE.     My structure of my entire face came forward.  Striking cheekbones.     I don't quite like it because I miss my old face but my friends say I look much healthier and younger.        Now at least my mouth when it comes forward will be harmonious with the rest.  All will be forward.