I've heard people mention that "recessed bones" (like the maxilla, etc.) in common cases are the result of improper development (be it mouthbreathing or whatever). My real wondering is if these bones are recessed or just never developed. If they are recessed, it implies they're all there but not where they're supposed to be -- but "undeveloped" would imply that they never were and that said techniques (like mewing) would make the bone grow and rebuild itself over time from pressure to a way that the person doing it wants/hopes for. I just wonder why the hell some people are so undeveloped & others not naturally.
Just curious because people use "recessed" and "undeveloped" when I think it may just be undeveloped. The "recessed" look is probably just poor development or lack of bones -- so it's more the matter of how well said techniques can tell the bones to model themselves (or add to themselves) and thus build themselves a more ideal or desired way -- not "bring" the existing bone forward (sounds like it makes no sense). For example, if a severely recessed person had a really bad example of recession, I'd think they just never developed bones as best as they could. These techniques wouldn't make any bone they have come out because if they had the proper development they shouldn't have been "recessed" in the first place, correct?
So "moving the maxilla" seems to be forcing the bone to add to itself/remodel and thus make more bone that wasn't actually there -- not "move it" because if it was already there it wouldn't make sense to me. All "remodeling" is really creating new bone -- not moving supposed bones that are "recessed," right?
In summary, nobody is really "recessed" it seems. I think it's just insufficient (opinion-to-opinion) bone development altogether -- not moving bones you have. Osteoclasts/osteoblasts add/destroy bone, which is the closest thing to "moving" them in the most literal since.
I guess the real question is, how does one know if the bones are "getting the message" with mewing and etc. and how well they are acting on it if so?
** The face pulling "bag method" -- /community/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **
** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- /community/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **
You bring a good point. Yes it's possible that some people might have developed properly and still have a somewhat flat mid face which is what you often read being described "recessed" look. Hence they use their tongue correctly, keep their mouth closed, breath from their nose, chew their food well, and swallow correctly, but still have a bit of mid face deficiency. For example their sub orbital rims might not be as visible as other people or their chin might never go past their lower lip. That's just their phenotype. But for people who do not do all those things correctly or a combination of them, they will have an underdeveloped face. And this will be visible in many ways including forward head posture, sloping forehead, hooked nose, flat cheeks, retruded mandible, narrow palate, etc. For those, correcting their oral posture and function will induce their bones to remodel and develop to a more ideal shape over time.
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
You bring a good point. Yes it's possible that some people might have developed properly and still have a somewhat flat mid face which is what you often read being described "recessed" look. Hence they use their tongue correctly, keep their mouth closed, breath from their nose, chew their food well, and swallow correctly, but still have a bit of mid face deficiency. For example their sub orbital rims might not be as visible as other people or their chin might never go past their lower lip. That's just their phenotype. But for people who do not do all those things correctly or a combination of them, they will have an underdeveloped face. And this will be visible in many ways including forward head posture, sloping forehead, hooked nose, flat cheeks, retruded mandible, narrow palate, etc. For those, correcting their oral posture and function will induce their bones to remodel and develop to a more ideal shape over time.
It’s weird I have major forward head posture but I don’t have sloped forehead, my nose is straight. I have been battling major depression for a few years which sometimes causes me to lose the will to life so that may be causing my foreword head posture.
Again, sloping foreheads are a phenotypical feature on many males, especially those of European descent. They may not be as common on Africans or Asians, but even in those cases the male skulls are less vertical in the forehead region than women.
Sloping forehead is a robust (male) trait the same way a low gonial angle and wide palate is. A flat and vertical forehead is neotenous and men are just less genetically neotenous than women. It isn't a postural deficiency but rather due to testosterone levels causing the development of the brow bone. Please let's stop this "sloped forehead is bad posture" meme. Even the best looking men in the world mostly have sloped foreheads . Also, the MMA fighters you guys post as amazing skull development have sloping foreheads too. It is a high T trait and is dimorphic, not CFD smh
Again, sloping foreheads are a phenotypical feature on many males, especially those of European descent. They may not be as common on Africans or Asians, but even in those cases the male skulls are less vertical in the forehead region than women.
Sloping forehead is a robust (male) trait the same way a low gonial angle and wide palate is. A flat and vertical forehead is neotenous and men are just less genetically neotenous than women. It isn't a postural deficiency but rather due to testosterone levels causing the development of the brow bone. Please let's stop this "sloped forehead is bad posture" meme. Even the best looking men in the world mostly have sloped foreheads . Also, the MMA fighters you guys post as amazing skull development have sloping foreheads too. It is a high T trait and is dimorphic, not CFD smh
There is no necessary mutual exclusivity. Sloping forehead is a sign of CFD too. In itself the term has no universal implications. Implications of a sloping forehead are determined by the surrounding context.
Again, sloping foreheads are a phenotypical feature on many males, especially those of European descent. They may not be as common on Africans or Asians, but even in those cases the male skulls are less vertical in the forehead region than women.
Sloping forehead is a robust (male) trait the same way a low gonial angle and wide palate is. A flat and vertical forehead is neotenous and men are just less genetically neotenous than women. It isn't a postural deficiency but rather due to testosterone levels causing the development of the brow bone. Please let's stop this "sloped forehead is bad posture" meme. Even the best looking men in the world mostly have sloped foreheads . Also, the MMA fighters you guys post as amazing skull development have sloping foreheads too. It is a high T trait and is dimorphic, not CFD smh
There is no necessary mutual exclusivity. Sloping forehead is a sign of CFD too. In itself the term has no universal implications. Implications of a sloping forehead are determined by the surrounding context.
In men they are a part of normal skull development. Men with more pronounced masculine features have stronger slopes the same way they have stronger jawlines
I'm not sure how much I buy the whole phenotype argument
Again, sloping foreheads are a phenotypical feature on many males, especially those of European descent. They may not be as common on Africans or Asians, but even in those cases the male skulls are less vertical in the forehead region than women.
Sloping forehead is a robust (male) trait the same way a low gonial angle and wide palate is. A flat and vertical forehead is neotenous and men are just less genetically neotenous than women. It isn't a postural deficiency but rather due to testosterone levels causing the development of the brow bone. Please let's stop this "sloped forehead is bad posture" meme. Even the best looking men in the world mostly have sloped foreheads . Also, the MMA fighters you guys post as amazing skull development have sloping foreheads too. It is a high T trait and is dimorphic, not CFD smh
What if your forehead is both vertical (high) AND you have a strong brow bone / brow ridge? I have a high, vertical (neotenous forehead), but also deep set / hooded eyes. Basically aryan type features. My T is quite high and I do bodybuilding. Is it from low T or just a phenotype/ethnicity thing? It seems my forehead is bigger than that of those MMA fighters and round skulled males I often see. You can check my xray, although it is 10 years old:
I don't have an xray after braces and mewing, but brow area should not have changed. My forehead looks rather big, but I'm not sure if it is undeveloped (neotenous) or just big like that genetically.
30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.
Again, sloping foreheads are a phenotypical feature on many males, especially those of European descent. They may not be as common on Africans or Asians, but even in those cases the male skulls are less vertical in the forehead region than women.
Sloping forehead is a robust (male) trait the same way a low gonial angle and wide palate is. A flat and vertical forehead is neotenous and men are just less genetically neotenous than women. It isn't a postural deficiency but rather due to testosterone levels causing the development of the brow bone. Please let's stop this "sloped forehead is bad posture" meme. Even the best looking men in the world mostly have sloped foreheads . Also, the MMA fighters you guys post as amazing skull development have sloping foreheads too. It is a high T trait and is dimorphic, not CFD smh
What if your forehead is both vertical (high) AND you have a strong brow bone / brow ridge? I have a high, vertical (neotenous forehead), but also deep set / hooded eyes. Basically aryan type features. My T is quite high and I do bodybuilding. Is it from low T or just a phenotype/ethnicity thing? It seems my forehead is bigger than that of those MMA fighters and round skulled males I often see. You can check my xray, although it is 10 years old:
I don't have an xray after braces and mewing, but brow area should not have changed. My forehead looks rather big, but I'm not sure if it is undeveloped (neotenous) or just big like that genetically.
Deep set eyes =/= strong brow. Ann Counter has deep set eyes but no visible brow protrusion.
Idk about this "Aryan" features stuff. People across the globe whether European or not can have either feature you allude to. What I do notice is that in European males, brows are heavier and foreheads slope more. West Africans and Asians have more flat and vertical forehead regions. West Africans foreheads even protrude to the front a bit sometimes creating a very youthful look . Neotenous traits ARE genetic by the way. Some guys like you have it more in their phenotype due to prenatal T exposure. Your own level of T circulating won't really affect it much but I could be wrong. I will be honest and say I see only slight brow protrusion in your forehead region judging by your x ray. But that is just an x ray.
Deep set eyes could exist independent of brow however. The fact women can have deep set eyes and they rarely have brow development shows they are not related. I used to think the same too.
Tbh I wouldn't call a flat vertical forehead an "Aryan" feature (I suppose you mean European) anyway. They definitely are common in more neotenous Southern Europeans but Northern Europeans have much heavier brows and slopes (and can be more robust than Southern Europeans) . I wouldn't class it universally European at all. Again, sloping foreheads are not in anyway a rarity among European males. More so a rule. And how old are you? Because when I was in my 20s my forehead was much more vertical than it is now but my jaw also smaller.
I pose a challenge to the people here who think sloped foreheads are a cfd feature. Please show me at least 2 men (preferably White) with optimal jaw development that have a flat and vertical forehead. To my knowledge I can realistically only think of one and he is very neotenous otherwise . I rarely see (white) men with angular and robust jaws that have a flat youthful forehead. Men are more gerontomorphic than women even with optimal development. I know it is possible in men who are not European but tbh I am doubtful many European descended men have such an appearance . I could be wrong. Most guys I know with strong jaws have the dimorphic forehead to go along with their phenotype, including the male models that this part of the web looks to as aesthetic pinnacles.
https://aryan-anthropology.blogspot.co.nz/p/the-profile-view.html
I suggest giving this a read.
"Heavy features and sloped foreheads are not the result of Neanderthal or "primitive" DNA, they are the result of increased bone growth after sexual maturity. In other words: they are non-Neotenous traits."
^
(If someone has a naturally sloping head)
Sloping forehead is associated with CFD not as an anatomical trait, but due to head tilt (in order to open airway from a backset mandible). Yes, some people (generally men) have anatomically sloping foreheads, but if they tilt their head, it will simply be more exaggerated
Another way to open the airway is to have forwards head posture, which does not alter the slope of the forehead.
Yeah, a sloping forehead is not an indicator of CFD, posture and positioning of the skull in relation to the spine is a better way to see if a face has CFD
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