Chewing foods like you mean it is definitely an interesting idea. But I don't know if forcing yourself to chew harder on soft foods is the right way to go about it. I worry that it would cause damage to the teeth. Instead what might be better is to focus on taking bigger bites and open mouth chewing. Doing this might naturally make you use more muscle in order to chew because there would be more food in your mouth and you would be going through a bigger range of motion. Check out Matt Stonie on youtube to see what I mean, and especially check out his jawline transformation over the past few years, it looks much more striking in motion than in a photo.

Also, certain foods require you to chew with more force or to chew for a longer period of time than others. In another thread people were talking about how Asians seem to have good faces compared to the West and I brought up the theory that it might be because of the fact that they eat more rice (and maybe noodles) than bread. When I chew rice I notice that it requires me to chew with more force and gives me more of a workout because you have to go out of your way to chew each grain before you can swallow. It might be worth experimenting with.

Other foods that require a good amount of chewing would be meats, especially red meat whole cuts, and crunchy vegetables.

Perhaps we can turn this into some sort of saying like "chew like a caveman" or "chew like grok" or something. I think someone else on this forum talked about that earlier.

Yeah, I have no doubt that Stonie's jaw is like that because of his career. You have to have absurdly powerful jaws to beat your competition in that field.

http://claimingpower.com/gackts-jaws/ Interesting stuff. Someway down the article they start talking about the relationship between chewy foods (in particular very hard swedish bread) and facial development which is def worth a read.

I don't think that the modern asian diet is particularly chewy compared to a western diet, @Allixa. Rice and noodles diet difficulty pales in comparison to stuff like the traditional swedish diet/hard gum/professional eater etc. Is it possible that they are trained to keep their mouths closed more often than westerners as a cultural thing? I don't think their diet aiding them in this regard.

Perhaps we can turn this into some sort of saying like "chew like a caveman" or "chew like grok" or something. I think someone else on this forum talked about that earlier.

UGG CHEW FOOD GOOD

@Matt. There is a phase "Drink your food and chew your water" The idea behind it is to chew your food until it is basically a fine paste. This is good for several reasons: It is a better workout for your jaw. It is easier to combine with tongue swallowing. It helps the enzymes in your saliva break down your food more effectively in your stomach which aids in digestion. It also stops you from wolfing down your meals and causing indigestion. Swishing and "chewing" water before you swallowing it is great as well since you mix your enzymes into it which will further aid in digestion. :] 

You bring up a good point about hard rustic style breads. I definitely don't see much of those in people's diets these days. Most of the bread that I see around me when I shop is very soft. That might be one missing link there. But I have noticed that chewing rice gives my jaw a better workout than eating those soft breads. I need to experiment with the tough breads to see the difference.

If it's not that then there could be a couple factors that might explain it such as nutrition, avoidance of orthodontists, or maybe something lifestyle related like you pointed out. It might be good if we can try and come up with a list of foods that are good for people who are trying to give their jaws a workout. Tough breads and certain cuts of meat would definitely be on there.

There's actually a phenomenon on youtube called "Mukbang" where people make videos of themselves eating food just so people can watch and listen to them eating. I might check some of those out and see how people with good faces eat and look at the chewing differences between certain foods.

Posted by: Allixa

 

There's actually a phenomenon on youtube called "Mukbang" where people make videos of themselves eating food just so people can watch and listen to them eating. I might check some of those out and see how people with good faces eat and look at the chewing differences between certain foods.

Good idea

I don't know about Asians but I have noticed Northern Europeans have more developed jaws than Mediterranean peoples. From what I understand the Nordics were hunter gatherers but the Meds were Neolithic farmers. Maybe the Nordics had a tougher diet in terms of hard food due to being hunters whereas Meds had softer foods with less meat. If you look at Mediterranean diets the emphasis on meat isn't super pronounced in my opinion. They have a lot of variety in terms of vegetables and grains but I don't find meat to be served in large quantities in many Mediterranean cuisine be it from Spain, Italy, Greece, or the Levant. I haven't had much experience with North African cuisine so I cannot comment. 

This is just a theory though. I know that in terms of jaw development people of the Mediterranean tend to more neotenous jawlines. However I notice Southern Europeans and other Mediterranean peoples have more neotenous profiles from forehead to jawline (the classic flat Mediterranean profile) so this may just be some phenotype aspect that can't really be changed. Who knows. Hard to tell when stuff like this is environmental or genetic. I also notice Southern Europeans are more microdont than Northern Europeans which probably is due to a softer diet. 

Also wanted to mention that chewing your food until it is ground to a "fine paste" as said above helps with appetite regulation. It gives your body more time to process food so your hunger regulation is more efficient .This means people who wolf down their meals are more likely to overeat. I noticed that i eat considerably less when I focus on chewing strategically .I get fuller faster. This has helped me regulate my weight without counting calories. 

I used to be able to eat at a garbage disposal rate. I was known for it actually. I could out eat practically all grown men who outweighed me by over 200 lb. But now I physically cannot do that. This is great for personal fitness and for my wallet as well. The sad part is if I wanted to gain weight it would be hard now lol

Posted by: EddieMoney

I don't know about Asians but I have noticed Northern Europeans have more developed jaws than Mediterranean peoples. From what I understand the Nordics were hunter gatherers but the Meds were Neolithic farmers. Maybe the Nordics had a tougher diet in terms of hard food due to being hunters whereas Meds had softer foods with less meat. If you look at Mediterranean diets the emphasis on meat isn't super pronounced in my opinion. They have a lot of variety in terms of vegetables and grains but I don't find meat to be served in large quantities in many Mediterranean cuisine be it from Spain, Italy, Greece, or the Levant. I haven't had much experience with North African cuisine so I cannot comment. 

This is just a theory though. I know that in terms of jaw development people of the Mediterranean tend to more neotenous jawlines. However I notice Southern Europeans and other Mediterranean peoples have more neotenous profiles from forehead to jawline (the classic flat Mediterranean profile) so this may just be some phenotype aspect that can't really be changed. Who knows. Hard to tell when stuff like this is environmental or genetic. I also notice Southern Europeans are more microdont than Northern Europeans which probably is due to a softer diet. 

Mew's theories would say that it is more about environment than genetics.. meaning that he would probably look to a difference in diet to see why jawlines are different in different regions. I think he mentioned that bread up north was typically harder and more rustic style. But there might be a genetic/phenotype difference playing a part as well. I never noticed the microdont thing you brought up, I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

Posted by: EddieMoney

Also wanted to mention that chewing your food until it is ground to a "fine paste" as said above helps with appetite regulation. It gives your body more time to process food so your hunger regulation is more efficient .This means people who wolf down their meals are more likely to overeat. I noticed that i eat considerably less when I focus on chewing strategically .I get fuller faster. This has helped me regulate my weight without counting calories.

I used to be able to eat at a garbage disposal rate. I was known for it actually. I could out eat practically all grown men who outweighed me by over 200 lb. But now I physically cannot do that. This is great for personal fitness and for my wallet as well. The sad part is if I wanted to gain weight it would be hard now lol

That's a good tip. I notice that a lot of people just take a couple quick bites and then swallow these days.

Posted by: Allixa

Chewing foods like you mean it is definitely an interesting idea. But I don't know if forcing yourself to chew harder on soft foods is the right way to go about it. I worry that it would cause damage to the teeth. Instead what might be better is to focus on taking bigger bites and open mouth chewing. Doing this might naturally make you use more muscle in order to chew because there would be more food in your mouth and you would be going through a bigger range of motion. Check out Matt Stonie on youtube to see what I mean, and especially check out his jawline transformation over the past few years, it looks much more striking in motion than in a photo.

Also, certain foods require you to chew with more force or to chew for a longer period of time than others. In another thread people were talking about how Asians seem to have good faces compared to the West and I brought up the theory that it might be because of the fact that they eat more rice (and maybe noodles) than bread. When I chew rice I notice that it requires me to chew with more force and gives me more of a workout because you have to go out of your way to chew each grain before you can swallow. It might be worth experimenting with.

Other foods that require a good amount of chewing would be meats, especially red meat whole cuts, and crunchy vegetables.

Perhaps we can turn this into some sort of saying like "chew like a caveman" or "chew like grok" or something. I think someone else on this forum talked about that earlier.

If people in Asia have better jaw development , why are their faces more vertically grown compared to Europeans which look more forward grown?

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I think palates are wider and gonial angles are shorter in Asia, which indicates they probably chew more. However while gonial angles are higher in Europe, the maxilla seems *more* horizontal so I think the Europeans may walk around with better posture and less forward head positioning. This is my theory as to why these differences exist and why it is possible to see Europeans with more forward growth but smaller/narrower jaws and narrower palates. Notice the European face has more protrusion in the mouth region. More positive inclination of lower incisors (which deepens the mentolabial fold) seems to be why this is and also just a more horizontally grown maxilla. Posturing has to be the explanation for this and it would also explain why Europeans are taller on average. 

I'm not sure how accurate that photo is. There are definite differences between the phenotypes of those two groups, but long face/short face seems like too much of a generalization. There are plenty of examples of Asians with forward grown faces and of Europeans with long faces.

Here's an image that shows some of the inherent phenotype differences, but even this is a bit of a generalization, though it usually holds true:

Posted by: Allixa

I'm not sure how accurate that photo is. There are definite differences between the phenotypes of those two groups, but long face/short face seems like too much of a generalization. There are plenty of examples of Asians with forward grown faces and of Europeans with long faces.

Here's an image that shows some of the inherent phenotype differences, but even this is a bit of a generalization, though it usually holds true:

Those pictures seem to corroborate my statements. The Asian faces seem like they have forward head posture and have all features of downward grown faces. Even the Asian female has a longer face than the European one. The European faces look straighter as if standing with proper posture. Notice the weaker eye support, receding chin, and sunken nose in the Asian. As someone who had a class 3 maloclussion, I can confirm my profile had the exact same features such as weak eye support, duck lips (weak chin with lip eversion) , and a sunken nose region. Those aren't "Asian" features (I am not Asian), those are the features of forward head positioning. It isn't forward growth at all but rather the opposite . the image in my profile pic shows those exact features almost.

As I have been doing McKenzie chin tucks / neck lengthening, my face has shortened thus reducing all the features of forward head posture. Notice the shorter faced European profile also looks more neotenous from side view. 

The 3 different phenotypes displayed (European, Asian, African) seem to be female also. Few European male profiles have such a developed frontal bone and instead have sloped foreheads however. Everything else in that picture though aligns perfectly with the long face/short face comparison I posted above. 

Edit: I wonder if there is something in the Asian diet that causes both a long ramus (good mandible development) but also leads to features of forward head posture. Perhaps lots of chewing but lacking in nutrients that strengthen bones to stand properly. I know many (East) Asian diets lack dairy. In the Europeans it is the opposite. The posture looks straight (thus maxilla positioned more forward as opposed to down and back) but the palate is narrower and the mandible smaller. Maybe they chew less (probably a softer diet OR just eating faster) AND intake more dairy. So they can stand straighter (thus being taller) but the mandibles are not as well developed 

Clearly cfd manifests itself in different ways throughout cultures. In many Europeans i don't necessarily notice lack of forward growth but rather a lack of mandibular development. In Asians it is inverted. They seem to lack forward growth but their mandibles (and palates) are well developed. Both can benefit from changes but in different ways. 

Edit 2: I am starting to think that ideal development involves a well developed mandible but also a forward positioned maxilla to maintain a straight stance. As infants of any race we all look the same more or less. Our profiles are straight and rather concave. As we grow they lose their concave nature (adults don't tend to foreheads that protrude like that of infants) but they ideally should remain straight. This is part of human neoteny. What I notice is that in some cultures, prognathism is present. But realistically I think this has to do with positioning. I don't think it is genetic. Healthy humans have flat, straight (neotenous) profiles. I have seen this in all types of people. When profiles lack chin development, many times this is due to facial lengthening / vertical growth that causes the soft tissue to sink down. We shouldn't take it is a "racial" trait. I notice in Asian Americans very strong chins and jawlines indicating that access to things like dairy and higher caloric intakes helps their bones develop to ways that might not have been possible in Asia. 

As I learn to stand more straight , my side profile gains neoteny. It is straighter and flatter than ever . My profile used to vaguely look like that of the "typical Asian" when I was younger. Not textbook Asian because I am not Asian (and have a  high bridged nose) but it lacked eye support, the nose was sunken, the teeth tipped out, and the mandible looked large. This is maxillary recession due to positioning the head forward. Gravity pulls down the maxilla simply because the mandible isn't acting to keep it forward and neither is the tongue. So the face grows vertical because the mandible / gravity pulls everything down and back.

Now? Much different story. My midface has shortened. My mandible has come forward. My eyes have been gaining support due to maxillary counterclockwise rotation . In all this I have started to look younger and my side profile has flattened out significantly as my chin has become more pronounced and my duck lips have receded. Some people would say I changed my phenotype but truth be told I am starting to believe less and less in that. My dentist diagnosed me as having prognathism but with how flat my side view has gotten he may want to reassess and also understand things like that aren't some genetic "mistake" or "adaptation" that can't be fixed.  

@eddie what do you mean by you're doing neck lengthening? i'm doing chin tucks + mewing too but I imagine you're talking about something different, so please share :]

@krollic

It was a typo. I didn't mean tucks AND neck lengthening I meant them as the same because when you tuck your neck elongates 

ah k. cheers. I recall you talking about how neck lengthening increases height though I don't remember where you said it. is that the same deal w/ spinal posture and have you seen any height gains from such things?

I have seen like an inch. I do things like hanging with no tensing my arms or hands. Just a relaxing hang. I feel all sorts of pops and cracks and I feel great after. With time I am able to reach the Pullup bars more and more indicating either I am lengthening or at the very least my pecs and lats are loosening which i won't complain about either. One of my coworkers called me tall and she is 5'7 so I felt great about such a compliment. I can't remember the last time anyone called me tall let alone a woman of above average height (for a female obviously). 

I feel I have "tall" genes though to be honest. I have long arms, long legs , and big feet and large hands .I don't find it a coincidence that i have gained height simply by standing differently . I definitely can't say I will grow more though. 

very cool. I'm 23 and for the past 5 years or so I've been 168cm which I *think* is about 5'6" so basically I had finished growing, however in the last half year I've gone up to about 170.5/5'7" so pretty stoked about that tbh even though I've always had ok posture. It's a pretty substantial difference and people have made observations on it which is reassuring. I attribute it to trying to maintain proper posture from head to toe (including neck tucks) throughout the day either while sitting or standing, and from weight lifting + stretching exercises similar to what you do. I don't really understand the mechanics behind it but I think my recent high T and HGH levels are playing a big part of it. also I suspect that the heavy load-bearing from gyming is increasing my bone density/thickness and also height as a result. I'm wondering if I could get to 5'8" but I'm doubtful tbh lol. it would be crazy to go from short to average (for my country) at my age