Micro implant assisted rapid palatal/maxillary expansion plus face pulling or protraction is the most legit thing you can do to literally move your maxilla up and forwards. Look at this
Those are just models btw, so do not expect to achieve nearly the degree of displacement that they show.
but yes this is currently the most legit option
You seem to be doing a lot of research into this. Which is better MSE or this?
MSE is a type of MARPE and it is superior
Why not expect it? Because bone is different? I don't see how we can't displace are maxilla like those models. Bone is different than whatever those fake skulls are made of yes, but don't you think over time you could achieve that? I don't see why not, bones remodel and move when forces are applied so I think you can. Maybe I'm missing something?
Why not expect it? Because bone is different? I don't see how we can't displace are maxilla like those models. Bone is different than whatever those fake skulls are made of yes, but don't you think over time you could achieve that? I don't see why not, bones remodel and move when forces are applied so I think you can. Maybe I'm missing something?
1) biggest reason is because the models do not take time into account - there is a big disclaimer about this in the study. The amount of displacement, especially in the case of maxillary impaction in some of those simulations would take years to achieve. No orthodontist is going to agree to work with you for that long and in that manner, they are not interested in making you look like a model.
2) the models simulate an ideal environment where the protraction force is applied 24/7 and no relapse occurs like it would for someone wearing a facemask only part of the day. This makes #1 above even more of a limiting factor. You probably have a life to live and you won’t be walking around protracting in public 😀
Taking #1&2 into account, now consider that treatment with the MSE will take 6-7 months at maximum unless you are borderline syndromatic.
You should only use this study to assess what placement and direction of force is suitable for your case. The author breaks this down for you in the conclusion.
Well, it's a positive change nonetheless. I wonder if scientists could find some chemical or something that makes your bones temporarily more pliable/softer and that we could inject it into our maxilla so we could make huge gains in a shorter period of time. Just a thought
Well, it's a positive change nonetheless. I wonder if scientists could find some chemical or something that makes your bones temporarily more pliable/softer and that we could inject it into our maxilla so we could make huge gains in a shorter period of time. Just a thought
Yes, exactly positive change and progress nonetheless.
Like i mentioned I am using mk-677 and peptides to achieve supraphysiological levels of HGH and IGF-1 and increase bone turnover. My bloods actually came back yesterday and I am well outside the normal range for both which means my stuff isn’t fake/bunk 😀 .
Jesus christ, man. Is there anything you haven't thought of? Haha
But anyways, thanks for all that you're doing. I hope you continue to get the results you're looking for. My recessed maxilla is literally my most disappointing feature, and if I manage to follow suit, it would be a life changer, like huge.
Jesus christ, man. Is there anything you haven't thought of? Haha
But anyways, thanks for all that you're doing. I hope you continue to get the results you're looking for. My recessed maxilla is literally my most disappointing feature, and if I manage to follow suit, it would be a life changer, like huge.
I’d like to think I’ve got a good piece of the puzzle figured out, haha. Gotta cover all the bases to make serious improvements, both physically and biochemically — part of the reason orthotropic treatments are so successful on children is because a) their sutures aren’t rigid (MSE takes care of this) and b) they have an optimal biochemical profile for growth and remodeling (high HGH/IGF-1 stimulating osteoblast and osteoclast activity).
Goddamn @varbrah lol that's a lot lol 364 igf-1 hahahaha you're literally out of the range. Maybe it is possible to get your maxilla 18mm forward if you have that much igf-1. If children get quick results because they're growing fast, and they're growing fast because they have a lot of growth hormone, than it is most likely adults will have be able to achieve such dramatic changes. Where do you get your mk-667 and peptides? How much is it?
Goddamn @varbrah lol that's a lot lol 364 igf-1 hahahaha you're literally out of the range. Maybe it is possible to get your maxilla 18mm forward if you have that much igf-1. If children get quick results because they're growing fast, and they're growing fast because they have a lot of growth hormone, than it is most likely adults will have be able to achieve such dramatic changes. Where do you get your mk-667 and peptides? How much is it?
pm me
Ouch! That looks painful. I'll take DNA appliance, thanks! :-) They're going IPO here shortly and I'm going to buy in. I'm not a stock advisor or anything... check with your $ managers. Danaher is also spinning off their dental to IPO end of 2019. I think Danaher is mismanaging i-CAT.... it needs to be freed. Try calling their sales or materials phone numbers... maybe you'll have better luck & will get through. Market demand is unmet...
I'm not an advisor. There is risk with all purchases. This is for entertainment purposes only. :-) <Look up Mad Money show's disclaimers & insert here.>
Granted, I will give you that what you're showing has some good controls on plane angulation. I have not studied that aspect much... just the adult arch development... and I'm not a dentist. Refer to your doctor. I know all pages on this whole site say that, but I thought I'd add it here.
Do you know where i can see DNA appliance providers?
Goddamn @varbrah lol that's a lot lol 364 igf-1 hahahaha you're literally out of the range. Maybe it is possible to get your maxilla 18mm forward if you have that much igf-1. If children get quick results because they're growing fast, and they're growing fast because they have a lot of growth hormone, than it is most likely adults will have be able to achieve such dramatic changes. Where do you get your mk-667 and peptides? How much is it?
pm me
Wouldnt HGh or ig1 increase nose length? What about acremology?
Goddamn @varbrah lol that's a lot lol 364 igf-1 hahahaha you're literally out of the range. Maybe it is possible to get your maxilla 18mm forward if you have that much igf-1. If children get quick results because they're growing fast, and they're growing fast because they have a lot of growth hormone, than it is most likely adults will have be able to achieve such dramatic changes. Where do you get your mk-667 and peptides? How much is it?
pm me
Wouldnt HGh or ig1 increase nose length? What about acremology?
No and no. No.
Well, it's a positive change nonetheless. I wonder if scientists could find some chemical or something that makes your bones temporarily more pliable/softer and that we could inject it into our maxilla so we could make huge gains in a shorter period of time. Just a thought
Yes, exactly positive change and progress nonetheless.
Like i mentioned I am using mk-677 and peptides to achieve supraphysiological levels of HGH and IGF-1 and increase bone turnover. My bloods actually came back yesterday and I am well outside the normal range for both which means my stuff isn’t fake/bunk 😀 .
Have you noticed this makes a big difference? Is that a lot more useful than just supplementing high levels of vitamin A & D (cod liver oil) and K2 à la Weston A. Price Foundation?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25147565/
Yes, big difference between taking supplements which are simply and plainly good for bone health and substances which positively alter bone metabolism, growth and turnover outside of what is normal for the average adult. K2 is also probably counterproductive to our goals to an extent since it decreases bone turnover, hence the rate at which it remodels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25147565/
Yes, big difference between taking supplements which are simply and plainly good for bone health and substances which positively alter bone metabolism, growth and turnover outside of what is normal for the average adult. K2 is also probably counterproductive to our goals to an extent since it decreases bone turnover, hence the rate at which it remodels.
Well, it mediates osteocalcin activity—don't you need both both resorption and bone creation to remodel your skull?
Have you personally noticed anything in particular from taking your drugs?
K2 inhibits osteoclast activity which decreases bone resorption, while increasing osteoblast activity. From what I understand the effect of this is a increase in bone density at the expense of plasticity/rate of remodeling.
I can’t say for sure whether my stack is helping since I started it concurrently with MSE+protraction (no control to compare to), but in theory it should be, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it is given how much progress I’ve made in just 2.5 weeks with my protraction regimen and growth stack.
K2 inhibits osteoclast activity which decreases bone resorption, while increasing osteoblast activity. From what I understand the effect of this is a increase in bone density at the expense of plasticity/rate of remodeling.
I can’t say for sure whether my stack is helping since I started it concurrently with MSE+protraction (no control to compare to), but in theory it should be, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it is given how much progress I’ve made in just 2.5 weeks with my protraction regimen and growth stack.
@varbrah (do we need to tag when quoting?)
Makes sense about the K2. Do you think it's worthwhile to take normal doses of K2 and fermented cod liver oil? Apollo and others mention they had better results just supplementing K2 alone here and I've read similar things on other forums. (Progress reported not noticing any difference.) Then again, a lot of people who aren't mewing report positive changes like stronger features and wider faces from taking it.
The forum is filled with people reporting that they supplement with vitamin K2. Here are just a handful of the posts that discuss the role of K2:
I must be oversimplifying this, but to achieve bone remodeling, it seems to me that we want an abundance (but not excess) of vitamins which encourage both osteoclasts (cells which break down bone) and osteoblasts (cells which build up bone). So vitamin A stimulates parathyroid hormone's osteoclastic activity, liberating calcium from bones into the blood, and vitamin D stimulates osteoblastic activity, depositing calcium from the blood in the bone. Vitamin K2 and magnesium seem to be important modulators of this mineralization balance. While I'm trying to improve my diet, I am also debating supplementing a multivitamin, D3, K2, and magnesium. Vitamin A excess has some bad side effects so for that I will stick with only the multivitamin and food sources. I also think that my dietary calcium intake is adequate.
Doctor David Buck:
Yes, I put all of my patients on K2, D3, Ca Mg to facilitate bone metabolism but even more importantly K2 is needed to allow the nasal septum which is cartilage to remain soft and pliable which facilitates mid face development. K2 is almost absent from our modern diets and as a result majority are deficient.
Another user on here mentioned that K2 was helpful in bone remodeling. After he took some he got a lot of palate expansion. I've always had the opinion that diet is more important than supplements but perhaps there are exceptions, and maybe supplementation can be important. But it's probably best to optimize diet first and cover all your bases before using supplements, otherwise they become a crutch.
So does your drug stack just allow you to achieve the same skull remodeling faster, or is there another benefit? Are there side effects? That paper you linked mentioned sex hormone interactions but I didn't really understand what I was reading (here's the full paper if you haven't).
K2 in normal doses so not deficient is fine. And yeah it does result in slightly larger bones, but this is effect is only temporary for as long as you are dosing K2 — It’s a trade-off between temporary aesthetic benefits and increased bone remodeling which can have a long-term impact.
My stack increases bone remodeling, sutural growth activity, bone mass, density, all of the above. By sex hormone interactions in the paper do you mean the part where they touch on bone mass deficiency due to sex hormone deficiency?
By sex hormone interactions in the paper do you mean the part where they touch on bone mass deficiency due to sex hormone deficiency?
Oh I guess that is what I was looking at. So you're getting the same result, just faster. What are the side effects?
Also, the picture you attached several posts ago is broken.
By sex hormone interactions in the paper do you mean the part where they touch on bone mass deficiency due to sex hormone deficiency?
Oh I guess that is what I was looking at. So you're getting the same result, just faster. What are the side effects?
Also, the picture you attached several posts ago is broken.
Not sure why the pic isn’t loading.. I ran a forum back in the day and that usually happened with posts if I were to manually wipe a file from the site’s repository, or if the site went down and the backup got fucked up somehow. Did the site crash recently?
And yes you could say I’m getting the same results, just faster — but that means the results aren’t the same. There aren’t any negative side effects from the gh peptides, but positive bonuses so far have been better skin, slightly diminished wrinkles, better sleep (deepens REM sleep), and fuller muscles.
Sorry to bump an old thread but could this make the midface visibly shorter? as in the forward growth pushes the the soft tissue upward along with the maxilla. Something like the video describes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trpXjORCyVg
I feel like with the knowledge you have you could write some kind of beginner friendly guide/faq to getting started on this journey of improving their health/aesthetics
I know it would be of endless help to people like me who are new to all this
I feel like with the knowledge you have you could write some kind of beginner friendly guide/faq to getting started on this journey of improving their health/aesthetics
I know it would be of endless help to people like me who are new to all this
Someone made a summary in this topic:
/community/community/main-forum/mse-fm-treatment-protocol/
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
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