Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum so I apologize in advance if I'm unaware of anything important going on.
I'm 17 1/2, and attempted to begin mewing a month ago. However, one of the problems I have is my top central incisors are titled back about 20-30 degrees. My teeth are overcrowded, noticeably crooked and misshaped. I have a deep bite; when I bite down(molars touching) my top incisors touch the gum of my bottom incisors.
Should I place the tip of my tongue right behind my incisors to shift them forward(non bite position), while also expanding the palate? Will the molars eventually reach each other?
OR should I keep my molars together(bite position) but not be able to touch my incisors?
I've already looked into different forums for a similar case but haven't found anything(yet).
Well I just have malocclusion class 2 and I wonder the same thing. I don't know if my molars need to contact or my incisors teeths need contact
For the moment I have my incisors theeth in contact when I mewing
(sorry for my english) Regards.
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum so I apologize in advance if I'm unaware of anything important going on.
I'm 17 1/2, and attempted to begin mewing a month ago. However, one of the problems I have is my top central incisors are titled back about 20-30 degrees. My teeth are overcrowded, noticeably crooked and misshaped. I have a deep bite; when I bite down(molars touching) my top incisors touch the gum of my bottom incisors.
Should I place the tip of my tongue right behind my incisors to shift them forward(non bite position), while also expanding the palate? Will the molars eventually reach each other?
OR should I keep my molars together(bite position) but not be able to touch my incisors?
I've already looked into different forums for a similar case but haven't found anything(yet).
hold mouth in class 1 position as if you had normal teeth avoiding molar contact (like an open bite)
I personally don't touch teeth. I chew with all my teeth for maybe 4-8 hours a day but at rest they don't touch. I have a Class 3 posterior open bite (a very unnatural and uncommon bite pattern) due to my orthodontist extracting two premolars on my mandible.
What benefits do you think come with chewing with all your teeth for 4-8 hours a day? It seems like a very big commitment of time.
What benefits do you think come with chewing with all your teeth for 4-8 hours a day? It seems like a very big commitment of time.
Mostly just happens because I forget to throw out the gum
@eddiemoney in a thread in November 2019 you said that you don't chew at all as " Chewing does little to nothing positive for facial development. "
Did you change your stance on this? From reading what your saying on how resting with molars together and chewing with molars can create an undesirable lower third shortening for males, would you recommend playing it safe and not chewing at all?
edit: obviously chewing when eating though
This change in opinion of mine happened as a result of the Temporalis vs Masseter thread. As I have learned to chew in many different planes, my teeth have started to fit better and I do feel my skull has lengthened a bit by doing this because my occiput feels more lifted away from my neck. So I think by chewing differently it has allowed my skull to rotate a bit and as a result my teeth fit better.
I had never tried using my mandible to position my maxilla but my engaging different bite patterns I feel the potential for better positioning. Before I was using my known bite patterns which didn't do much to change my face but make it broader without added length. And do I believe my bones have grown from this? I believe they probably are in better position which increases their prominence favorably. But I have no idea whether this makes them grow larger.
I personally don't touch teeth. I chew with all my teeth for maybe 4-8 hours a day but at rest they don't touch. I have a Class 3 posterior open bite (a very unnatural and uncommon bite pattern) due to my orthodontist extracting two premolars on my mandible.
If I were you I'd be careful with chewing that much, man. There's really no need for that and I believe it's bad for you in the long-term.
I personally don't touch teeth. I chew with all my teeth for maybe 4-8 hours a day but at rest they don't touch. I have a Class 3 posterior open bite (a very unnatural and uncommon bite pattern) due to my orthodontist extracting two premolars on my mandible.
If I were you I'd be careful with chewing that much, man. There's really no need for that and I believe it's bad for you in the long-term.
It's not my permanent plan but have seen minute changes in my profile I was looking for. For example my profile has gone from a long face pattern to a medium-long one based on how my teeth and chin sit relative to each other (my chin is coming more ahead of my upper incisors like a short face profile).
On top of this chewing has helped my posterior open bite shift a bit more favorably. No pains or anything to speak of. Though just like last time, it won't be a permanent habit. But from the changes I have seen based on a few landmarks I set for witnessing change, my maxilla does seem to have lengthened a bit.
I personally don't touch teeth. I chew with all my teeth for maybe 4-8 hours a day but at rest they don't touch. I have a Class 3 posterior open bite (a very unnatural and uncommon bite pattern) due to my orthodontist extracting two premolars on my mandible.
If I were you I'd be careful with chewing that much, man. There's really no need for that and I believe it's bad for you in the long-term.
It's not my permanent plan but have seen minute changes in my profile I was looking for. For example my profile has gone from a long face pattern to a medium-long one based on how my teeth and chin sit relative to each other (my chin is coming more ahead of my upper incisors like a short face profile).
On top of this chewing has helped my posterior open bite shift a bit more favorably. No pains or anything to speak of. Though just like last time, it won't be a permanent habit. But from the changes I have seen based on a few landmarks I set for witnessing change, my maxilla does seem to have lengthened a bit.
I have chewed a lot, for years, there are quite a lot of negative effects, which is why I warned you.
These include :
1) Your face will become shorter, there will be more skin/fat on your face as a result of this, it's like the skin lags and takes time to tighten up.
2) Maxilla will rotate clockwise, which is sub-optimal.
3) You might get TMJ problems if you're not careful.
4) Your teeth will slowly get more pushed into your gums.
5) I've seen my front teeth push so hard into my gums the teeth is almost visible in the gum itself, if open my upper lip you can literally see white teeth behind the skin.
6) It'll make your face wider, but your eye distance won't change, which might make your face look weirder as well. You definitely don't want to over-do that proportion.
7) Your lower jaw will not widen as much as zygos.
8) Side profile will probably look worse, in my case it did from excessive chewing, probably because of clockwise maxilla rotation.
I think the pros of chewing is possible improvement of front profile, but again, depends on the proportions. I went from fWhR of 1.69 to like 1.95 just from chewing, so it will definitely make your face shorter if that's what you want. But it won't make distance between eyes wider and it might even make your face too small in height.
I personally don't touch teeth. I chew with all my teeth for maybe 4-8 hours a day but at rest they don't touch. I have a Class 3 posterior open bite (a very unnatural and uncommon bite pattern) due to my orthodontist extracting two premolars on my mandible.
If I were you I'd be careful with chewing that much, man. There's really no need for that and I believe it's bad for you in the long-term.
It's not my permanent plan but have seen minute changes in my profile I was looking for. For example my profile has gone from a long face pattern to a medium-long one based on how my teeth and chin sit relative to each other (my chin is coming more ahead of my upper incisors like a short face profile).
On top of this chewing has helped my posterior open bite shift a bit more favorably. No pains or anything to speak of. Though just like last time, it won't be a permanent habit. But from the changes I have seen based on a few landmarks I set for witnessing change, my maxilla does seem to have lengthened a bit.
I have chewed a lot, for years, there are quite a lot of negative effects, which is why I warned you.
These include :
1) Your face will become shorter, there will be more skin/fat on your face as a result of this, it's like the skin lags and takes time to tighten up.
2) Maxilla will rotate clockwise, which is sub-optimal.
3) You might get TMJ problems if you're not careful.
4) Your teeth will slowly get more pushed into your gums.
5) I've seen my front teeth push so hard into my gums the teeth is almost visible in the gum itself, if open my upper lip you can literally see white teeth behind the skin.
6) It'll make your face wider, but your eye distance won't change, which might make your face look weirder as well. You definitely don't want to over-do that proportion.
7) Your lower jaw will not widen as much as zygos.
8) Side profile will probably look worse, in my case it did from excessive chewing, probably because of clockwise maxilla rotation.
I think the pros of chewing is possible improvement of front profile, but again, depends on the proportions. I went from fWhR of 1.69 to like 1.95 just from chewing, so it will definitely make your face shorter if that's what you want. But it won't make distance between eyes wider and it might even make your face too small in height.
I too was experiencing these issues with excessive chewing until I changed my technique.
And fyi, there is no one size fits all statements like "clockwise rotation is bad". Not that I specifically need more clockwise rotation. But someone with an anterior open bite would greatly benefit from clockwise rotation, however. So it's not as simple as saying that's all there is to it.
My bite also fits more open as a result of proper chewing. So if my clockwise rotation was excessive, my bite wouldn't fit more openly. If I had experienced facial shortening in the way you describe, my bite would be more deep and my lower third weaker. But the opposite has happened.
I personally don't touch teeth. I chew with all my teeth for maybe 4-8 hours a day but at rest they don't touch. I have a Class 3 posterior open bite (a very unnatural and uncommon bite pattern) due to my orthodontist extracting two premolars on my mandible.
If I were you I'd be careful with chewing that much, man. There's really no need for that and I believe it's bad for you in the long-term.
It's not my permanent plan but have seen minute changes in my profile I was looking for. For example my profile has gone from a long face pattern to a medium-long one based on how my teeth and chin sit relative to each other (my chin is coming more ahead of my upper incisors like a short face profile).
On top of this chewing has helped my posterior open bite shift a bit more favorably. No pains or anything to speak of. Though just like last time, it won't be a permanent habit. But from the changes I have seen based on a few landmarks I set for witnessing change, my maxilla does seem to have lengthened a bit.
I have chewed a lot, for years, there are quite a lot of negative effects, which is why I warned you.
These include :
1) Your face will become shorter, there will be more skin/fat on your face as a result of this, it's like the skin lags and takes time to tighten up.
2) Maxilla will rotate clockwise, which is sub-optimal.
3) You might get TMJ problems if you're not careful.
4) Your teeth will slowly get more pushed into your gums.
5) I've seen my front teeth push so hard into my gums the teeth is almost visible in the gum itself, if open my upper lip you can literally see white teeth behind the skin.
6) It'll make your face wider, but your eye distance won't change, which might make your face look weirder as well. You definitely don't want to over-do that proportion.
7) Your lower jaw will not widen as much as zygos.
8) Side profile will probably look worse, in my case it did from excessive chewing, probably because of clockwise maxilla rotation.
I think the pros of chewing is possible improvement of front profile, but again, depends on the proportions. I went from fWhR of 1.69 to like 1.95 just from chewing, so it will definitely make your face shorter if that's what you want. But it won't make distance between eyes wider and it might even make your face too small in height.
I too was experiencing these issues with excessive chewing until I changed my technique.
And fyi, there is no one size fits all statements like "clockwise rotation is bad". Not that I specifically need more clockwise rotation. But someone with an anterior open bite would greatly benefit from clockwise rotation, however. So it's not as simple as saying that's all there is to it.
My bite also fits more open as a result of proper chewing. So if my clockwise rotation was excessive, my bite wouldn't fit more openly. If I had experienced facial shortening in the way you describe, my bite would be more deep and my lower third weaker. But the opposite has happened.
You're right, not all people need CCW, some need the CW rotation. And you're right again, technique definitely matters, I've tried a heavy masseter pattern and it only made things worse. Looking in hindsight, I should've looked at the connections of the muscle. I actually found a website https://human.biodigital.com , where you can search up the mastication anatomy, it's pretty great for figuring out how the whole skull is built-up.
If you look at that website, look at the lateral pterygoids and medial, they might be of interest.
The medial pterygoid connects to the mandible and the sphenoid, and also the maxilla(two medial pterygoid muscles). I believe the medial pretygoid can pull the back off the maxilla downwards in the long-term remodelling of the bone.
The lateral pterygoid connects with the upper mandible and the sphenoid. I believe it alone can cause CCW rotation, just based on it's position.
I'll experiment with those two in the upcoming year and see what happens, probably nothing, maybe something. I'm convinced that tongue posture can only affect the maxilla by widening it, something Mike Mew once said himself, without actually causing a significant rotation. The muscles pulling the tongue up are also connected to the soft palate, which is a part of the maxilla that may independently rotate by itself, and thus improve breathing without affect maxilla rotation much(only palate).
I personally don't touch teeth. I chew with all my teeth for maybe 4-8 hours a day but at rest they don't touch. I have a Class 3 posterior open bite (a very unnatural and uncommon bite pattern) due to my orthodontist extracting two premolars on my mandible.
If I were you I'd be careful with chewing that much, man. There's really no need for that and I believe it's bad for you in the long-term.
It's not my permanent plan but have seen minute changes in my profile I was looking for. For example my profile has gone from a long face pattern to a medium-long one based on how my teeth and chin sit relative to each other (my chin is coming more ahead of my upper incisors like a short face profile).
On top of this chewing has helped my posterior open bite shift a bit more favorably. No pains or anything to speak of. Though just like last time, it won't be a permanent habit. But from the changes I have seen based on a few landmarks I set for witnessing change, my maxilla does seem to have lengthened a bit.
I have chewed a lot, for years, there are quite a lot of negative effects, which is why I warned you.
These include :
1) Your face will become shorter, there will be more skin/fat on your face as a result of this, it's like the skin lags and takes time to tighten up.
2) Maxilla will rotate clockwise, which is sub-optimal.
3) You might get TMJ problems if you're not careful.
4) Your teeth will slowly get more pushed into your gums.
5) I've seen my front teeth push so hard into my gums the teeth is almost visible in the gum itself, if open my upper lip you can literally see white teeth behind the skin.
6) It'll make your face wider, but your eye distance won't change, which might make your face look weirder as well. You definitely don't want to over-do that proportion.
7) Your lower jaw will not widen as much as zygos.
8) Side profile will probably look worse, in my case it did from excessive chewing, probably because of clockwise maxilla rotation.
I think the pros of chewing is possible improvement of front profile, but again, depends on the proportions. I went from fWhR of 1.69 to like 1.95 just from chewing, so it will definitely make your face shorter if that's what you want. But it won't make distance between eyes wider and it might even make your face too small in height.
I too was experiencing these issues with excessive chewing until I changed my technique.
And fyi, there is no one size fits all statements like "clockwise rotation is bad". Not that I specifically need more clockwise rotation. But someone with an anterior open bite would greatly benefit from clockwise rotation, however. So it's not as simple as saying that's all there is to it.
My bite also fits more open as a result of proper chewing. So if my clockwise rotation was excessive, my bite wouldn't fit more openly. If I had experienced facial shortening in the way you describe, my bite would be more deep and my lower third weaker. But the opposite has happened.
You're right, not all people need CCW, some need the CW rotation. And you're right again, technique definitely matters, I've tried a heavy masseter pattern and it only made things worse. Looking in hindsight, I should've looked at the connections of the muscle. I actually found a website https://human.biodigital.com , where you can search up the mastication anatomy, it's pretty great for figuring out how the whole skull is built-up.
If you look at that website, look at the lateral pterygoids and medial, they might be of interest.
The medial pterygoid connects to the mandible and the sphenoid, and also the maxilla(two medial pterygoid muscles). I believe the medial pretygoid can pull the back off the maxilla downwards in the long-term remodelling of the bone.
The lateral pterygoid connects with the upper mandible and the sphenoid. I believe it alone can cause CCW rotation, just based on it's position.
I'll experiment with those two in the upcoming year and see what happens, probably nothing, maybe something. I'm convinced that tongue posture can only affect the maxilla by widening it, something Mike Mew once said himself, without actually causing a significant rotation. The muscles pulling the tongue up are also connected to the soft palate, which is a part of the maxilla that may independently rotate by itself, and thus improve breathing without affect maxilla rotation much(only palate).
Yes I feel like rotation happens through a combination of multiple muscles being used and posture being changed, not just the tongue pushing. But, to engage the tongue properly lots of muscles have to also engage and position properly. So they all act synergistically.
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