This article tells me to persist even if it's hard to breathe, surely there is another method? No?

/community/common-tongue-posture-mewing-problems-and-solutions/

1. General answer - has to do with a muscular imbalance.

When I read pout/duck look I think of the lower lip coming up to meet the upper lip.

IF that is accurate: That is related to the mentalis muscle activating in your chin. As well as an upper lip which has shortened due to habit/use/sometimes a labial frenulum that is too developed  can restrict its length as well. Adding to the look. If this is the case, then stop using the mentalis and strengthen the orbicularis oris. The patakara lip trainer is a famous tool for training Orbic. But that alone isn’t enough -/ you would also need to retrain the muscles to keep a new position which didn’t activate the mentalis muscle 

This video does it better than I can. https://youtu.be/eoQ8IJT8iNA

Prrsuming that is the case. If my understanding is right then:

Rebalancing the musculature is your goal. this id where Myofunctional therapy may come into place.

2) This question I understood slightly less. The nostril breathing difficulty I understand.

The clenching, tongue freeze effect you talk about  I do not understand so much.

To answer your questions:

i don’t understand the freezing, muscle tightness you talk about.

Difficulty to get the musculature because it is tiring could be either tongue tie (which I had)

or a lack of muscle tone? I really am unfamiliar with your experience. Hopefully others with be better about that.

if your tongue is spilling over to molars. then yes a lack of transverse development would be implicated. 

If can’t breathe through your nose then an appliance may not be the first solution. 

But the myobrace supposedly helps keep the tongue posture correct. 

Thr most common appliances you’ll hear about are... Biobloc, DNA, Homeoblock, Saggital plates,

Active plates, y-expanders are commonly spoken of on this website. 

There are others. The appliance would help create room for the tongue as an early measure, but you can also expand through the tongue force alone.

Main issue is problem breathing in nose? Primary problems would be...3 main ideas:  structural obstruction, environmental/inflammation/allergie, or your breathing technique has created an oxygen/CO2/NItrous oxide imbalance causing stuffiness in nose. I feel all three of those problems are interrelated. I’ve struggled with all 3.

The bad habits that we are now correcting are implicated in being the cause of the very problems that prevent our fixing. Like breathing in nose!

Here’s the deal — you can’t be mouth breathing/not breathing through your nose

if you want to apply the mewing dental force to your palate. You know this. They contradict one another. This is indeed important so I understand your interest in figuring this out!

solution? If Structural problem: well yes you’d have to just keep at it. unless you got surgery. Confirm or rule out it is structural via an ENT (ear nose throat) equivalent doctor. Maybe surgery is necessary; I had the surgery. 

As an idea orthotropics tries to avoid surgeries. it is true that with time through proper technique. Slowly. The structural issue would resolve itself. I believe it! 

Inflammation/environmental. Maybe that means anti-allergy medicines or nose spray. Cetrizine is the ingredient in a common OTC med. Some nose sprays affect your sense of smell so watch out.  

Last there are breathing techniques which can clear your nostrils up quickly. A consulting Myofunctional therapist taught it to me, but we only spoke the one and I’ve forgotten!

PS I’d known about the nnn sound  but never used the word wing before! Nor any word that ended on the nnnn/nnng to motivate the tongue posture. I like it, hehe. Wing works well.

Hi thanks so much!

1. I thought I had alveolar prognathism but I hope not! I don't think i have it, so I do think it is muscular imbalance now.

2. I think it may be due to tongue tie. Does everything improve once you remove it? It's just hard, because when it's in the correct posture, I can't breathe through my nose because my tongue blocks the airway. That or my airway is too narrow, or some other unknown. Does that make things clearer? Should I still go ahead with an oral appliance?

Thanks!

Best I can offer so far:

tongue tie — mm. Got the surgery 2 weeks ago, and I feel things are early in the process. Did tongue and both lips.

Were there profound changes I’ve noticed before and after? Mmm no not the kind I’d read about.

I noticed changes after the surgery where I was speaking, moving, and even sounding differently in my opinion. Tongue was reaching up to the palate in the same way, in my opinion. 

However 2 cm of extra space was also made in the tongue/mouth. The tongue has healed the best so far. 

Significant changes? Too soon to tell. 

At times I feel the mewing is going better/I’m able to feel the upward force more. I could Mew beforehand  I could breathe with my tongue on the palate beforehand. 

Yet correlated with the surgery is that in the recent weeks it has been easier to Mew.

—-

But on your next question I feel #2 applies the most. If you can’t breathe through your nose it is either in part due to the maxilla/palate being lowered and into the airway. Or that your nasal infrastructure can’t get the air into your airway (deviated septum or otherwise) 

mewing should alleviate this problem over time, and at your age it will be slightly faster to progress through this (supposedly)

@Apollo what are your thoughts on the above?

Posted by: Jeffrey

@apollo you said that the soft palate presses into the airway, and the video you linked of Mr Mew said that it was normal to have some discomfort and that people with horizontal growth only have a small amount of the palate pressing against the airway. Does this mean that with constant practise of correct oral posture, you will train your palate to only have a small amount of it pressing against the airway? Or will the constant practise of correct oral posture push the maxilla up and forward, and thus allow you to breathe easier?

I'm so confused about how correct oral posture! When you have correct oral posture, can you not breathe through your nose because 1. tongue tie? 2. you need to push your maxilla up? 3. it's normal?

so many contradicting statements!

 Hi Jeffery, here's my post you mentioned from another thread:

Posted by: Apollo
Yes, the very reason people don't tend to practice proper oral posture is because it impinges their airway, and this perpetuates the downward spiral of the maxilla dropping further down and back, further restricting the airway. Anyone without adequate tongue space will find that the posterior third, when correctly seated on the roof of the mouth, will press the soft palate into the pharynx, restricting breathing through the nose. This can even be a sign that you have achieved correct oral posture. Then you have to practice the control to back off just enough to breath, while still keeping the posterior tongue engaged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2vqxBkRoXI

It sounds like you understood what I was trying to explain. I suspect what you describe as difficulty breathing when practicing correct oral posture is what all of us experience with any level of craniofacial dystrophy. With a recessed maxialla and/or narrow palate restricting tongue space, lifting the posterior tongue against the soft palate completely or partially obstructs the pharynx. If you really had a tongue tie, surgically removing part of the lingual frenulum would make it easier for you to lift your tongue to the roof of your mouth, but it wouldn't prevent the posterior tongue from blocking your airway. The only way to fix this, as you suggest, is to create more tongue space, but unfortunately, this requires keeping your posterior tongue in the position that is blocking your airway. We can't stop breathing, so what to do? I find that lifting my tongue up to the point that it closes off my pharynx is a good indicator helping me to know that I am correctly engaging the posterior part of my tongue which seems to be crucial to achieving change. Then, I can practice reducing the pressure of my tongue just enough to inhale and exhale while hearing and feeling the resistance of the air passing through the narrowed space. Finally I try to back off the tongue enough to breathe relatively freely, while still trying to feel that posterior tongue contacting the soft palate. It's a delicate balance, that I probably am not maintaining correctly most of the time, but the idea is that it gets easier as you become more accustomed to the posture and hopefully as your maxilla slowly moves up and forward, creating more tongue space in the processes, and in a virtuous cycle making it easier to be more consistent with correct oral posture. If you have a narrow maxillary arch, palate expanders can create lateral space to fit your tongue on your palate with less restriction on your airway. Does that all make sense?

The duck-like lips thing might just be your natural skull shape. Not all humans have the same skull structure. This picture might help.. it was made by a Japanese person but the idea might apply to you if I understood your post correctly.

About the airway, just keep mewing and chewing and your skull will adjust to give you more room over time. I've seen this post a million times before and every time the person says "oh yeah things got better after I just kept mewing."

@Allixa @gjenopp Allixa's post reminded me of yours Gregory, so I reread your post and it's not really my lower lip pouting, but both my top and bottom lip meeting together a bit more forward if you look at it from a side profile, and not meeting in a straight line if you look at it from a side profile.

This person above has their lips evenly balanced and meeting together straightly.

This lady below has lips that pout out:

can this be fixed with myofunctional therapy?

Posted by: Jeffrey

can this be fixed with myofunctional therapy?

It's a genetic thing so there's nothing to fix. That's the ideal physical form for that skull type.