what happened to that comment saying you weren't going to post anymore

what you going to help them or reverse haha

Yes! Always get second opinions. 

I did have to educate one on a high palatal vault.  He’s like oh.. check this nice high palatal vault out.  I said, that’s the problem!  How do you bring it down most effectively?  He’s got that look like oh crap... I’ve been doing this backwards.  I suppose he read somewhere it was good for airway.  I’m looking at a before/after of one Facebook reviewer (woman) & can see he narrowed her arches.  He’s saying it makes the face nice and longer.  Surely, but it can also create problems!  You guys... we know so, so much.  It’s good to help change this industry - to morph it.  It is an uphill battle, but we are warriors.  I have seen first hand the behavior changes with a great palatal expansion... and the problems with a crappy one.  I paid for Saggital shaved down.  When lost, a TPA was used, but blocked palatal drop with its placement.  IMW can take a backseat here... helping focus!!!  I learned first hand, sadly.  I have to share.  Treat to the behavior.  CBCT looked good on nasal... not the MCA.  Widening the arches helped with nasal only if palate could drop!  Had to take out TPA.  Fast relapse.  Yikes!  Should have had retainer ready.  What a mess.

Every ortho says... here’s the tool that I use that most matches the resolution.  The perfectionist in me says... I want the biggest ratio...

palatal drop : palatal widening

Reshaping the palate is key for this ADHD.

The tongue can help some... but even Sarah Hornsby who takes $ for Myofunctional therapy says it’s not a replacement for ortho in kids.  I think it could be... but not in this case... from relapse of expansion... the vertical is worsened.. and curve of spee now.  Can’t Mew way out. Newton’s third law.  Will go with treatment most likely to help a child with Down Syndrome and quickest back to normal (shortest necessary holding).  You guys... this is a mess.  I mean, you think you study and study and learn... and for all that... what is to show?  Better leaving kids to natural stuff in phase 1.  RPE - they don’t tell you - is a 1 year thing.  I hear it can get shorter with continuous (vs. turnkey).  But a targeted palatal reshaping nice and slow... no breakage of maxilla.  But braces don’t help as much with palate drop they say.  I don’t know.  Are they actually measuring or is it a visual illusion?

This whole industry will keep messing up until we get a health perspective... and it is up to us consumers to drive it.  I have the answer and won’t take no... With or without you, Mr. patent lawyer, I’m doing this.  Not dealing with ignorant people.  Need more time to study this out, but am out of time.

Sarah Hornsby is not the god of all myofunctional therapists. Plenty of myos have child patients who completely remodeled their faces with myo alone. 

As for your dentist who wants to give people a "nice, long face", that's great that you're trying to educate them but I would feel like I was wasting my breath. I've paid half a dozen dentists who don't get airway/myo/functional ortho AT ALL, and no matter how much I try to hand them evidence on a platter, they usually don't want to hear it, and instead just condescend  and claim that functional is baloney and that traditional dentistry is the only way to go. So hopefully my going to their competitors and voting with my money is going to be an impact on the field.

can you blame them? orthotropics threatens to destroy the orthodontic industry. if I knowingly made my money from the exploitation of peoples ignorance then I would definitely be trying to shut down and shun all the Hornsbys and Mews I could get my hands on.

Posted by: snaaaaakes

Plenty of myos have child patients who completely remodeled their faces with myo alone. 

Please share with us examples or links to such examples.

Posted by: krollic

can you blame them? orthotropics threatens to destroy the orthodontic industry. if I knowingly made my money from the exploitation of peoples ignorance then I would definitely be trying to shut down and shun all the Hornsbys and Mews I could get my hands on.

That's not exactly the reason. Most of the orthodontists I dealt with are decent people but Orthtropics challenges allot of the principles they hold from their formal education.

Also, Orthotropics is not perfect, it's difficult to practice and has a varied successes rate which makes it unattractive to most patients let alone orthodontist.

It just needs to be recognized as an alternative method and shared as an option with every patient.

Truthfully, I am absolutely convinced that orthodontists don't want to help people at all.  It is so true.  If it's a health issue, they shy away.  They ONLY want to straighten teeth by in large.  They lack liability insurance and basically lay in wait like wolves in sheeps clothing to sucker someone out of a few bucks.  Usually do they this on phase 1... where they say that they want to expand so many millimeters.  One even said.. I don't overexpand... I'd expand just 2-3 mm.  It sounds super decent, I guess.  That is to the unsuspecting.  They have a treatment plan that goes 9-12 months for a 8-9 year old.  Here's the deal... my kid grew past that in less than the time.  That is entrapment of both kinds... financial and bodily!  When you beak someone's maxilla and apart a bit... then you are STOPPING growth: https://www.righttogrow.org/dr_joseph_da_cruz   Legit.  This is damaging.  The guy has a long, skinny face and wants to have sex with every woman and call all these concubine's kids as their own.  They want to be gods.. They think they are.  They want to play God where they make everyone's face into their own.  It is sick and twisted and disgusting.  But if you actually want health, good luck to you!  You know... if you ever listen to orthodontic pod-casts, it's about how to catch the easy patients who won't ask too many questions or give you a hard time.  Legit!  Listen to it!!!  It's all about chairtime and turnover... like a friggen restaurant!  "Listen... no we can't NOT include salt on your french fries and, no, we can't hold the dressing... it goes on the salad.  Take your sodium issues up with another restaurant."  "Okay, so the last restaurant gave you too much salt on their food???  I'm sorry, we can't accept your patronage nor give you water."  "Yes, I understand that you are thirsty and are going to die... why don't you go back to the last restaurant you were at and ask for water?"  This pass-the-buck mentality is why you choose extremely carefully upfront who you are going to use... or even if you go at all.  Literally, probably better with a hammer an nails at home and a block of wood or rubber bands.  It's time for functional removable appliances by the people - for the people!  We know what we're doing.  We know better than anyone.

Oh wait a minute... adults maybe shouldn't preshave unless they can transform their lower bite forward.. Need a splint to do that... and maxillary advancement.  Maybe the better approach is for the regular DNA device.  See lab ordering info above.   It normally costs $7k at Vivos.

Whether you preshave or not is totally up to the individual situation.  Basically, preshaving can shorten the maxilla and cause a rear open bite.  However, acrylic can cause that, too.  The acrylic should be thin, thin thin to not mess up jaws... Also, you'd need to look at all factors.  I guess that it's making sense now to me.  I don't know if it makes sense to everyone.  A vivos provider with CBCT would be recommended.

To be clear... if you want to keep your midface height, don't preshave, just stretch is slowly & postshave.  I could be misunderstanding... but I actually did a lot of this learning the hard way.  The last few months have been a personalized Hades.  All I know is that a little saggital shaved down (preferably preshaved) helped immensely with focus/ADHD stuff).  The secret sauce is out.  It's not the widening of the arches... it's the dropping / reshaping of the palate.  I learned this the HARD WAY!  Through horrible, terrible, aweful situations.  I am heartbroken by the orthodontic mistreatment.