Is it the FAGGA? I've seen before and after pictures of using that appliance and it's good, but it's not turning people into models which is exactly what I want. I'm thinking that people who use the fagga have it removed too early, maybe if they kept the fagga on they could remodel their maxilla into an ideal, model teir maxilla.
I don't see why not, if you keep remodeling your maxilla via fagga, there must be a point where you can create the ideal maxilla or something close to it, there is no way you can't. Is there other appliances that move the maxilla up and forwards? All I want is something to help me get an ideal maxilla.
Looking like a model = genetics
jordan barrett does not have a good maxilla. In fact he has a long midface
His maxilla is quite recessed actually. I mean he had extractions of 8 teeth.
Maxilla alone isn't enough to look like a model -- you also tend to need a good jaw; good eye area; nose; and good facial ratios/proportions. Don't forget symmetry which helps a ton. Everything on your face must "go together" very ideally in order to look really attractive -- something that can be extremely difficult/nearly impossible for some people to achieve. Most average people won't look anywhere even close to model-esque without enough proper plastic/cosmetic surgery and luck, but maxilla improvement alone won't create miracles.
And the tongue is the best appliance people should've been using since early life.
If you want to move the maxilla up and forward quickly, try double jaw advancement.
** The face pulling "bag method" -- /community/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **
** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- /community/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **
it cant be that recessed
...but it's not turning people into models which is exactly what I want...
Without trying to be unkind and having read a number of your posts, I think you're in the wrong forum and/or you need a healthy reassessment of the priorities in life.
Looks aren't everything, and it's a slippery slope from wanting to tweak/improve/alter your genetic potential vs. wishing for a different face entirely.
TL;DR this isn't Lookism.
Most people here are trying to improve their health in one way or another, and any aesthetic benefits are an added bonus.
I respect your opinion, however, looks are very important in terms of what you career choice is. For example, if you want to be a model, actor, or singer looks are very important and determine how far you will get in that field. This is indisputable
It certainly helps, no one would dispute that. However, it doesn't mean you can't be successful without model looks. Well, if you want to be a literal model, then yes you have to look like a model, but there are plenty of very successful actors and singers that just are not that attractive. It's healthy to have reasonable expectations, mewing wont turn you into a model if you're not already there basically. It could MAYBE increase your attractiveness by 1 point on the 10 point scale, i.e. 6 to 7, 7 to 8, etc.
Looking like a model I notice requires the following for males:
Height (genetic)
Frame (genetic)
Low hairline (genetic)
Baby smooth skin (can be altered by cosmetics so not genetic)
Full lips, as I have never seen a male model with thin lips (genetic)
Short nose (genetic)
In many cases, "cat eyes" (positive canthal tilt) but this seems to be not as non negotiable. Is this genetic? Well I think it is despite the fact many people think maxillary advancement will make them have these eyes. I doubt it isn't genetic though. My wife's paternal side has these eyes and all have varying levels of facial development so I am inclined to say genetics affect this a ton.
Strong angular jawline (this isn't genetic and can be altered with posture and exercise).
Low body fat (not genetic and same as above)
Exaggerated ogee curve (this I also believe is not genetic as my own ogee curve has improved with posture changes).
Golden ratio like facial structure (spacing between eyes, nose, mouth, etc which I believe can be altered by posture but not sure by how much)
Some unique aspect to their overall appearance like Tyson Ballou eyebrows, Jordan Barrett cherub face, David Gandy coloring etc.
So as we can see most of what models are working with involves genetics with a few non genetic factors you can change. In other words looking like a model is more than just your Mew line score . Although some models might not have "perfect" maxillary development however, few are visibly CFD sufferers. So maxillary advancement certainly cannot hurt whatsoever. You certainly won't see any Jay Leno chin models nor Zach Braff looking ones either. But you also won't see models who can pass as MMA fighters because super high T faces are not fashion model material as you need a good degree of neoteny to be even considered.
... In other words looking like a model is more than just your Mew line score ...
Yep. This. 👍
Looking like a model I notice requires the following for males:
Height (genetic)
Frame (genetic)
Low hairline (genetic)
Baby smooth skin (can be altered by cosmetics so not genetic)
Full lips, as I have never seen a male model with thin lips (genetic)
Short nose (genetic)
In many cases, "cat eyes" (positive canthal tilt) but this seems to be not as non negotiable. Is this genetic? Well I think it is despite the fact many people think maxillary advancement will make them have these eyes. I doubt it isn't genetic though. My wife's paternal side has these eyes and all have varying levels of facial development so I am inclined to say genetics affect this a ton.
Strong angular jawline (this isn't genetic and can be altered with posture and exercise).
Low body fat (not genetic and same as above)
Exaggerated ogee curve (this I also believe is not genetic as my own ogee curve has improved with posture changes).
Golden ratio like facial structure (spacing between eyes, nose, mouth, etc which I believe can be altered by posture but not sure by how much)
Some unique aspect to their overall appearance like Tyson Ballou eyebrows, Jordan Barrett cherub face, David Gandy coloring etc.
So as we can see most of what models are working with involves genetics with a few non genetic factors you can change. In other words looking like a model is more than just your Mew line score . Although some models might not have "perfect" maxillary development however, few are visibly CFD sufferers. So maxillary advancement certainly cannot hurt whatsoever. You certainly won't see any Jay Leno chin models nor Zach Braff looking ones either. But you also won't see models who can pass as MMA fighters because super high T faces are not fashion model material as you need a good degree of neoteny to be even considered.
canthal tilt is actually dependent on your cheekbones. High cheekbones gives positive canthal tilt.
Which is why most asians have positive canthal tilt, they naturally have those extra high cheekbones.
If your cheekbones melt down, your eyes canthal tilt will do the same.
I agree with the rest tho, model is not only about good
It probably has to do with cheekbones but I have seen many Asians with NCT as well as PCT. As my own cheekbones have gotten prominent and eye support has increased my canthal tilt has remained neutral like it has always been. This is despite me having a very downward grown face (50 mm Mew line even after postural changes).
Now on my in-laws paternal side they have high cheekbones and PCT but they also can be visibly recessed. So maybe PCT has other factors we don't yet know of. What I do notice is PCT tends to be seen in cold adapted phenotypes and rarely if ever in tropical adapted people. But this is just an observation. You rarely if ever see PCT in the Mediterranean for example (it's not tropical but not a cold climate by any means). You won't ever see tons of PCT in Spain for example.
Lima really exemplifies the idea that model faces are not simply about bone development. If you look at her features she actually seems to lack very bony areas in her face. Her features are very soft and fleshy. She looks like an infant. Her chin is weak, mandible small, and her nose bridge is almost non existent. Also even though she has very noticeable pct, her eyes are not hooded.
Kinda goes to show that robust bones have nothing to do with being attractive as the meme online tends to go. At least for women, the development of robust bones does not go hand in hand with better facial harmony. I am inclined to say it is the same in men as many male models are not as robust as people make them out to be. Francisco Lachowski for example is actually not robust at all yet is very good looking.
This goes with what I was saying regarding robust bones not creating some magical golden ratio face. If you look at many models (male and female) they have good facial harmony but their bones are not super robust. Even someone like Jordan Barrett who has an angular jawline is only robust in that one aspect.
This goes back with my looking like a model being genetic and a large part of that genetic aspect is being neotenous. Most male and female models have very youthful faces and this isn't only due to skin quality but due to their bones. Lima is not robust in her bone structure facially and neither is Chico nor most male models. Facial robustness actually would make them less likely to model since all models have baby faces anymore.
Just to be clear, neoteny =/= poor development. Poor development is growing wrong. But facial robustness =/= facial harmony it just means your bones protrude more than someone else. MMA fighters could not really be fashion models. Even if they have very bony and protected faces they are largely not considered to be that great looking.
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