With my mewing journey i feel like i make 1 step forward then two step backward i know thats how it supposed to be but i feel like im just not mewing correctly even after almost a year. I just want to get my lower jaw to move forward or widen at the ramus. I hear that when you mew you should feel lower jaw pushing forward but if i do that then i cant get it up on the back of my palate im just lost on what to focus on now any advice?
I have been mewing for around 9 months and my results so far are honestly on par with those in the success stories pics. Ill probably post before and after pics in a year when the results are even further undeniable.
Here is one thing i can say as a fact, and is really just echoing what mike mew has said. All these little tricks with chewing and different appliances, are just auxillary strategies and have little to no actual basis in the core of the problem. Getting the REAR of the tongue on the rear of the palate is literally the main thing that is necessary to yield changes in maxilla, upper jaw and lower jaw. It is literally the only important thing. If there is one thing you should be doing it is applying constant force with the core muscles of the tongue (those in the back) to the mid and back part of the palate. It should feel intuitively obvious when you are doing it right. (Face and jaw including undereye area will have a vague radiating pressure)
I truly believe that the ONLY reason to use appliances is if you are so retruded that your tongue cannot fit in the space under the palate it is supposed to. Otherwise, think about it, if you cant achieve long term progress with just oral posture, how do you aim to maintain it?
I have been mewing for around 9 months and my results so far are honestly on par with those in the success stories pics. Ill probably post before and after pics in a year when the results are even further undeniable.
Here is one thing i can say as a fact, and is really just echoing what mike mew has said. All these little tricks with chewing and different appliances, are just auxillary strategies and have little to no actual basis in the core of the problem. Getting the REAR of the tongue on the rear of the palate is literally the main thing that is necessary to yield changes in maxilla, upper jaw and lower jaw. It is literally the only important thing. If there is one thing you should be doing it is applying constant force with the core muscles of the tongue (those in the back) to the mid and back part of the palate. It should feel intuitively obvious when you are doing it right. (Face and jaw including undereye area will have a vague radiating pressure)
I truly believe that the ONLY reason to use appliances is if you are so retruded that your tongue cannot fit in the space under the palate it is supposed to. Otherwise, think about it, if you cant achieve long term progress with just oral posture, how do you aim to maintain it?
That sound cool and all but if you dont post pictures or something I cannot take you seriously. Everybody here talks everything but then never back it up with proof. And some of the success stories are hard core photoshop. Thats why Im documenting my progression with pictures in the same light with same angle to show proof.
I have been mewing for around 9 months and my results so far are honestly on par with those in the success stories pics. Ill probably post before and after pics in a year when the results are even further undeniable.
Here is one thing i can say as a fact, and is really just echoing what mike mew has said. All these little tricks with chewing and different appliances, are just auxillary strategies and have little to no actual basis in the core of the problem. Getting the REAR of the tongue on the rear of the palate is literally the main thing that is necessary to yield changes in maxilla, upper jaw and lower jaw. It is literally the only important thing. If there is one thing you should be doing it is applying constant force with the core muscles of the tongue (those in the back) to the mid and back part of the palate. It should feel intuitively obvious when you are doing it right. (Face and jaw including undereye area will have a vague radiating pressure)
I truly believe that the ONLY reason to use appliances is if you are so retruded that your tongue cannot fit in the space under the palate it is supposed to. Otherwise, think about it, if you cant achieve long term progress with just oral posture, how do you aim to maintain it?
That sound cool and all but if you dont post pictures or something I cannot take you seriously. Everybody here talks everything but then never back it up with proof. And some of the success stories are hard core photoshop. Thats why Im documenting my progression with pictures in the same light with same angle to show proof.
Nobody here is required to show pictures . At the end of the day, we believe our own results and lose nothing in light of someone else's doubt and need for veracity.
Also I need to mention that on this forum there is no need for attacking someone and telling them they can't be taken seriously especially if they want to maintain their privacy.
I have been mewing for around 9 months and my results so far are honestly on par with those in the success stories pics. Ill probably post before and after pics in a year when the results are even further undeniable.
Here is one thing i can say as a fact, and is really just echoing what mike mew has said. All these little tricks with chewing and different appliances, are just auxillary strategies and have little to no actual basis in the core of the problem. Getting the REAR of the tongue on the rear of the palate is literally the main thing that is necessary to yield changes in maxilla, upper jaw and lower jaw. It is literally the only important thing. If there is one thing you should be doing it is applying constant force with the core muscles of the tongue (those in the back) to the mid and back part of the palate. It should feel intuitively obvious when you are doing it right. (Face and jaw including undereye area will have a vague radiating pressure)
I truly believe that the ONLY reason to use appliances is if you are so retruded that your tongue cannot fit in the space under the palate it is supposed to. Otherwise, think about it, if you cant achieve long term progress with just oral posture, how do you aim to maintain it?
That sound cool and all but if you dont post pictures or something I cannot take you seriously. Everybody here talks everything but then never back it up with proof. And some of the success stories are hard core photoshop. Thats why Im documenting my progression with pictures in the same light with same angle to show proof.
Nobody here is required to show pictures . At the end of the day, we believe our own results and lose nothing in light of someone else's doubt and need for veracity.
Also I need to mention that on this forum there is no need for attacking someone and telling them they can't be taken seriously especially if they want to maintain their privacy.
I dont know. I just feel like we are here to help eachother and show evidence. I do it for myself and for other who would like to change their life. Im sorry if I sounded like Im attacking.
I have been mewing for around 9 months and my results so far are honestly on par with those in the success stories pics. Ill probably post before and after pics in a year when the results are even further undeniable.
Here is one thing i can say as a fact, and is really just echoing what mike mew has said. All these little tricks with chewing and different appliances, are just auxillary strategies and have little to no actual basis in the core of the problem. Getting the REAR of the tongue on the rear of the palate is literally the main thing that is necessary to yield changes in maxilla, upper jaw and lower jaw. It is literally the only important thing. If there is one thing you should be doing it is applying constant force with the core muscles of the tongue (those in the back) to the mid and back part of the palate. It should feel intuitively obvious when you are doing it right. (Face and jaw including undereye area will have a vague radiating pressure)
I truly believe that the ONLY reason to use appliances is if you are so retruded that your tongue cannot fit in the space under the palate it is supposed to. Otherwise, think about it, if you cant achieve long term progress with just oral posture, how do you aim to maintain it?
I took this approach as soon as I could in my mewing journey, about 3 years in (I started with dysfunction and a low intermolar width) up until now for another 3 years, and while my results sped up, I find now I didn't widen in the front much. So I've been using the "tap" technique discussed in the fagga thread in the hopes of accomplishing this widening (plus more forward growth, too) and I think it's working, but I need more time to confirm. It's like a tongue push up but pressure focused at the mid tongue on the alveolar ridge, although pressure is applied everywhere: front, mid, and back if you're mindful of that and have the ability to do so. I think a significant part of the technique is using intermittent pressure instead of constant pressure and believe what a dentist in the fagga thread said about why that is. Anyway, I would appreciate some thoughts on this approach from anyone. Because I've only heard of this result from myobrace use and I've seen it in some ALF users, but I'd strongly prefer to stay appliance free.
@Rockyp33 do you know if you can swallow correctly yet, that does put a lot of pressure on the back of the palate as well. I feel my lower jaw pushing forward, but never thought to consider it. The thing about mewing is most likely you'll be changing how you do it as your functionality improves, you just may need more time to do this
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Posted by: SUGR
With agga the biggest factors are lip seal, tongue posture and of course nasal breathing. But you can speed up the signalling by tapping on the acrylic pad on your palate rather than just maintaining a constant pressure.
The body is very good at ignoring constant pressure after a while, where as on/off stimulus causes more signalling potential. This is why for example you will hear the benefits of bone deposition when standing on vibration plates at certain frequencies(hertz) for osteoporosis etc.
As a side, I have plenty of patients who do not do the Big 3 and too commonly after 3 months they have 1mm of agga growth only... So for me this alone shows the treatment is not simply about the appliance springs putting force on teeth.. Because if it was it would not matter the other factors...
so you mean just intermittently pushing up? ive heard about that because its much more intense then light pressure constantly so it probably breaks down the muscle faster which in turn speed up changes. I think i had better posture before but since i was so asntsy for ward growth i was focusing on the front of the palate too much and the back came down. Now i believe my posture is good i worked hard to fix it last night and i really feel the back 3rd up their today.
I believe in that method that push/tap definitley fatigues your tongue muscle faster.
@apollo @greensmoothies Im going to start that because forward growth is exactly what im aiming for currently any other tips? i think ive been too focused on all the little thing intead of the main thing like propepr swallow 3rd of the tongue all the way up im oging to just focus on the basics and the tap and hopefully ill see some results.
@Rockyp33 you can do lots of little things so long as time permits and you don't lose sight of the basics, sure. This forum is a boon for getting ideas to try. My basic advice for forward growth is doing a lot of Mckenzie chin tucks, basically all day and night if you can. At least keep the occupit raised.
If your maxilla tilted as you mention then be sure to engage the back of your tongue on your palate 24/7 unless speaking, eating etc, and swallow several times a minute. With time it gets easier. First year is slow for people with an intermolar width on the lower end if that's your situation.
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My inter molar I think is like 35-40. Yeh I have a overbite alright I’ll focus on chin tuck and posterior 3rd thank you.
By occipital u mean the bone on the back ur head? I raise it to the ceilin well I chin tuck.
By occipital u mean the bone on the back ur head? I raise it to the ceilin well I chin tuck.
Yep that's right, keep it up. So long as your incisors aren't retroclined, possibly other factors, you can eventually rotate your maxillo-mandibular complex to a much better position doing the tucks as much as possible: aim for 24/7 if you can. When you can sleep on your back in a tuck, progress speeds up considerably.
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
Well they are retro cloned lol @greensmoothiees does that mean I can’t do it?
By occipital u mean the bone on the back ur head? I raise it to the ceilin well I chin tuck.
Yep that's right, keep it up. So long as your incisors aren't retroclined, possibly other factors, you can eventually rotate your maxillo-mandibular complex to a much better position doing the tucks as much as possible: aim for 24/7 if you can. When you can sleep on your back in a tuck, progress speeds up considerably.
So retroclined incisors will prevent this maxillary movement from happening?
Would you suggest people in our situation apply more tongue pressure to the canines and incisors in addition to the palate?
By occipital u mean the bone on the back ur head? I raise it to the ceilin well I chin tuck.
Yep that's right, keep it up. So long as your incisors aren't retroclined, possibly other factors, you can eventually rotate your maxillo-mandibular complex to a much better position doing the tucks as much as possible: aim for 24/7 if you can. When you can sleep on your back in a tuck, progress speeds up considerably.
So retroclined incisors will prevent this maxillary movement from happening?
Would you suggest people in our situation apply more tongue pressure to the canines and incisors in addition to the palate?
I'm not totally 100% sure but I've seen this mentioned by a dentist, let me pull up the screen (attached)
It's from Marcello's Bio-Mechanical Dystonia Community on Facebook.
And this study: http://idjournal.org/downloads/isuues/pre/IDJ_Vol_9_1.pdf
What do you think? Might be mistaken but I seem to vaguely recall this was something you wrote about at some point.
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Also, personally I do apply pressure with the front part of my tongue to the base of the teeth in front, but not against them, just at the base of the teeth, and in my experience this does cause some slight teeth tipping which may help your situation. To what extent it's helped me, I'm not sure, and by my estimation they have tipped out half a 1mm. It's not particularly a goal of mine, though, to tip the front teeth out. Here's the post about that.
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
What is a lower orthotic?
I’m sure with retroclined it can maybe make it more dofficult? But I don’t see how it would make it not possible to have any forward growth
I’m sure with retroclined it can maybe make it more dofficult? But I don’t see how it would make it not possible to have any forward growth
The quote itself says mandible movement forward is impossible. But we already knew that anyway. Of course retroclined incisors will not allow the mandible to slide forward.
Yeah @Rockyp33 part of the work we do on the skull is growth and then there's cranial bone movement, other practices as well but they lie outside this discussion. I was just citing an example of a roadblock toward a better position of the maxillo-mandibular complex, specifically a condition (retroclined incisors) that prevents upswing of the mandible. I hope I understood and explained this correctly. Anyway, you can keep going with the tucks because they have other benefits and when any roadblocks are removed, if present (I'm not totally sure what your occlusion situation is) then the mandible should swing up with the maxilla. That's something I've seen in myself (but my roadblock situation was different) and also the case study I linked details this phenomena.
Anyway to circle back to a previous point I was making, the dentist's post was interesting to me because of my Mewing experience. Mew tends to go on about how you need to correct your body posture as it's so important for Mewing. And he's right, but with my experience (and this is just my theory) I had such dysfunction stemming from a very narrow pallet (29mm). I got in a car accident and that was all my body needed to experience for it to reinforce a forward head posture with a dowagers hump: my theory is this was done to protect my ability to breathe. I bruxed every night for a while. And until I opened up my airway sufficiently through expanding my palate, I couldn't correct my posture despite so faithfully doing the proscribed exercises by the physiotherapist I went to, who was supposed to be "the best" I was told by local people young and old. To his credit, he did mention that I needed to put my tongue on the roof of my mouth, but it wasn't until I discovered Mew that I understood why I needed to do that and how I could use my tongue to expand my palate. Even then it took about 3 years to get a mere 3mm expansion. But after I got through that, opened my airway up more, I could get faster progress with mewing and eventually did correct my posture after I established the requisite foundation to be able to do so (again this is just my theory of how it worked for me). And once you largely resolve dysfunction, this is when the Mew Magic begins...
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
I’m sure with retroclined it can maybe make it more dofficult? But I don’t see how it would make it not possible to have any forward growth
The quote itself says mandible movement forward is impossible. But we already knew that anyway. Of course retroclined incisors will not allow the mandible to slide forward.
we already know it’s impossible? How is it impossible mine are retroclined but I don’t see how that would halt all my progress ? So I’m fucked
Yeah @Rockyp33 part of the work we do on the skull is growth and then there's cranial bone movement, other practices as well but they lie outside this discussion. I was just citing an example of a roadblock toward a better position of the maxillo-mandibular complex, specifically a condition (retroclined incisors) that prevents upswing of the mandible. I hope I understood and explained this correctly. Anyway, you can keep going with the tucks because they have other benefits and when any roadblocks are removed, if present (I'm not totally sure what your occlusion situation is) then the mandible should swing up with the maxilla. That's something I've seen in myself (but my roadblock situation was different) and also the case study I linked details this phenomena.
Anyway to circle back to a previous point I was making, the dentist's post was interesting to me because of my Mewing experience. Mew tends to go on about how you need to correct your body posture as it's so important for Mewing. And he's right, but with my experience (and this is just my theory) I had such dysfunction stemming from a very narrow pallet (29mm). I got in a car accident and that was all my body needed to experience for it to reinforce a forward head posture with a dowagers hump: my theory is this was done to protect my ability to breathe. I bruxed every night for a while. And until I opened up my airway sufficiently through expanding my palate, I couldn't correct my posture despite so faithfully doing the proscribed exercises by the physiotherapist I went to, who was supposed to be "the best" I was told by local people young and old. To his credit, he did mention that I needed to put my tongue on the roof of my mouth, but it wasn't until I discovered Mew that I understood why I needed to do that and how I could use my tongue to expand my palate. Even then it took about 3 years to get a mere 3mm expansion. But after I got through that, opened my airway up more, I could get faster progress with mewing and eventually did correct my posture after I established the requisite foundation to be able to do so (again this is just my theory of how it worked for me). And once you largely resolve dysfunction, this is when the Mew Magic begins...
Well ill only feel satisfied once my lower jaw is aligned with the upper or I’ll forever be self concious
Yeah @Rockyp33 part of the work we do on the skull is growth and then there's cranial bone movement, other practices as well but they lie outside this discussion. I was just citing an example of a roadblock toward a better position of the maxillo-mandibular complex, specifically a condition (retroclined incisors) that prevents upswing of the mandible. I hope I understood and explained this correctly. Anyway, you can keep going with the tucks because they have other benefits and when any roadblocks are removed, if present (I'm not totally sure what your occlusion situation is) then the mandible should swing up with the maxilla. That's something I've seen in myself (but my roadblock situation was different) and also the case study I linked details this phenomena.
Anyway to circle back to a previous point I was making, the dentist's post was interesting to me because of my Mewing experience. Mew tends to go on about how you need to correct your body posture as it's so important for Mewing. And he's right, but with my experience (and this is just my theory) I had such dysfunction stemming from a very narrow pallet (29mm). I got in a car accident and that was all my body needed to experience for it to reinforce a forward head posture with a dowagers hump: my theory is this was done to protect my ability to breathe. I bruxed every night for a while. And until I opened up my airway sufficiently through expanding my palate, I couldn't correct my posture despite so faithfully doing the proscribed exercises by the physiotherapist I went to, who was supposed to be "the best" I was told by local people young and old. To his credit, he did mention that I needed to put my tongue on the roof of my mouth, but it wasn't until I discovered Mew that I understood why I needed to do that and how I could use my tongue to expand my palate. Even then it took about 3 years to get a mere 3mm expansion. But after I got through that, opened my airway up more, I could get faster progress with mewing and eventually did correct my posture after I established the requisite foundation to be able to do so (again this is just my theory of how it worked for me). And once you largely resolve dysfunction, this is when the Mew Magic begins...
There was nothing in the quote that mentioned upswing of the mandible. It said forward movement. What that means is that retroclined incisors push the mandible back since during occlusion the mandible must retract. This means that you can't significantly protract your mandible.
If the maxilla rotates counterclockwise the incisor retroclination would become either neutral or even slight proclination, allowing upswing.
@EddieMoney The case study states in the abstract the auto rotation of the mandible occurred after protrusion of the incisors. Is to say this is upswing of the mandible wrong wording? Sorry for any confusion.
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Can you explain in simpler terms? Since I have retroclined incisors and an overbite will mewing brings my my lower jaw forward or do a mandible upswing or do ortho treatment
@EddieMoney The case study states in the abstract the auto rotation of the mandible occurred after protrusion of the incisors. Is to say this is upswing of the mandible wrong wording? Sorry for any confusion.
I understand protruding incisors alone allows for mandible upswing given there is more room to move. But what I am saying is that moving the maxilla upward and forward would allow this anyway even if incisors are not specifically stimulated to procline.
If the pitch of the maxilla changes and rotates counterclockwise, incisor inclination will become positive. So yes incisor proclination allows for mandible upswing but incisor proclination can be simply affected by the pitch of the maxilla. The study itself doesn't state that incisor inclination alone precludes MAXILLARY movement. Just because proclining the incisors allows for the mandible to move doesn't mean that current incisor positioning prevents any motion of the maxilla
Alright i believe i understand so i can still have maxilla movement and mandible upswing but i just have retro clined teeth that may hold me a bit back from the ideal occlusion with proclined teeth. When i talked to my functional orthodontist i remember the first thing he said we need to do before anything is expand the front of my pallette and now i understand what he was talking about.
Alright i believe i understand so i can still have maxilla movement and mandible upswing but i just have retro clined teeth that may hold me a bit back from the ideal occlusion with proclined teeth. When i talked to my functional orthodontist i remember the first thing he said we need to do before anything is expand the front of my pallette and now i understand what he was talking about.
Did your myofunctional therapist say how you could go about doing this expansion at the front of your palate? I mentioned earlier in the thread that this is an area I neglected. But I'm going to track my progress with alginate impressions because I have an idea of what might work, will post about it in a few months if it works out
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No it was just a orhtodontist he just told me the first step to fixing my bite was to expand the upper front arch which i now understand is needed to move the lower jaw forward. he was gonna use an expander, and im going to try that pushup method you talked about @greensmoothies
Still does anyone know what a lower orthotic is?
@eddiemoney I believe it refers to an orthotic used on the lower dental arch or maybe an orthotic used on the lower body. Some examples of products that come to mind are things like ankle, knee braces, shoes etc, or the gelb alf splint for the lower arch. I get the impression with splints that they basically do what a Mckenzie chin tuck would do, with disadvantage being the teeth don't meet anymore, unless I'm guessing your occlusion is severely bad, who are the kind of people that use such products anyway. But I havent researched in to that much. On a side note, the ALF seems like a fairly good appliance as far as those go, some of the principles from their camp I've applied to my mewing, but I don't really get why it's so expensive. Then again I also saw some bad results with the mid face lengthening for people with a maxilla pitched downward, same story with the FAGGA too it seems
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
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