I just read about the Bow appliance( http://www.forwardontics.com/bow.html ), which was developed by Dr. Sandra Kahn. It seems smart in that it has two anchor points(forehead and chest), pulls both jaws forward, and seems pretty stable when the user moves around. My concern is that, based on pictures, it is only pulling forwards, not upwards...I know in the Mewvector the net force vector is in a forward and upward direction. Solely pulling forwards wouldn't obviously seem to stimulate upward swing, unless I'm missing something. Is that a flaw in the design, or could the appliance be adjusted to pull upwards based on the patient's needs?
Ah, makes sense - thank you!
Another question I had: is the Bow able to achieve autorotation of the maxilla? I believe that is the rotation of the back part of the maxilla in addition to the alveolar part, but I may be wrong... I often hear Dr Mew describing autorotation as a goal of his Mewvector and was wondering if the Bow has any ability to achieve the same? As based on observation it doesn’t seem to apply any rotational force to the maxilla like on the Mewvector’s force diagram.
The MewVector system uses 5 rubber bands. Two posterior rubber bands pull up on either side, two anterior rubber bands pull forward on either side, and one anterior rubber band pulls up in the middle. The Forwardontics/Chimpancerda BOW could be used to anchor the three anterior rubber bands, but you would need to come up with additional attachment points on either side of the head for the posterior traction if you wanted to replicate Mew's force diagram, and this might interfere with the mobility of the BOW system.
"The BOW will LITERARILY change the direction of orthodontics."
Its funny to see that even orthodontics use the word "literal" incorrectly.
The design seems like overkill. There are several protraction masks which are so much smaller, cheaper and easier to install.
You guide the direction of growth by the angle you are pulling at, which is possible to be adjusted in almost every facemask (including that one).
"The Bow can be activated by hooking orthodontic elastics with the desired force to removable or fixed orthodontic appliances. including anchorage implants.
This is now the second orthodontist who says you can use a protraction device with a removeable oral appliance. I wonder why no one is actually experimenting with this on this forum. Its very simple and cheap to do (200-300$).
"The Bow can be activated by hooking orthodontic elastics with the desired force to removable or fixed orthodontic appliances. including anchorage implants.
This is now the second orthodontist who says you can use a protraction device with a removeable oral appliance. I wonder why no one is actually experimenting with this on this forum. Its very simple and cheap to do (200-300$).
You can read the old posts in the thread about my routine where I document my experiment combining extra-oral traction with a removable acrylic expander, modeled on the MewVector and Plato's facepulling helmet. Eventually, the wire on the expander holding one of my headgear tubes broke, and I decided that removable, teeth-anchored appliances are not good for protraction in adults, at least not for me. The strategy combining a facemask with bone-anchored expansion documented by @varbrah sounds much more promising, but I haven't tried it myself.
"The Bow can be activated by hooking orthodontic elastics with the desired force to removable or fixed orthodontic appliances. including anchorage implants.
This is now the second orthodontist who says you can use a protraction device with a removeable oral appliance. I wonder why no one is actually experimenting with this on this forum. Its very simple and cheap to do (200-300$).
You can read the old posts in the thread about my routine where I document my experiment combining extra-oral traction with a removable acrylic expander, modeled on the MewVector and Plato's facepulling helmet. Eventually, the wire on the expander holding one of my headgear tubes broke, and I decided that removable, teeth-anchored appliances are not good for protraction in adults, at least not for me. The strategy combining a facemask with bone-anchored expansion documented by @varbrah sounds much more promising, but I haven't tried it myself.
Your profile page has 19 pages of activity. Is there a easier way to find a specific thread?
"Eventually, the wire on the expander holding one of my headgear tubes broke, and I decided that removable, teeth-anchored appliances are not good for protraction in adults"
That seems like a weird conclusion just because the wire broke. How long were you able to use the facemask before it broke?
Did you use a acrylic expander from braceshop?
Your profile page has 19 pages of activity. Is there a easier way to find a specific thread?
"Eventually, the wire on the expander holding one of my headgear tubes broke, and I decided that removable, teeth-anchored appliances are not good for protraction in adults"
That seems like a weird conclusion just because the wire broke. How long were you able to use the facemask before it broke?
Did you use a acrylic expander from braceshop?
/community/community/case-discussions/my-routine/
Your profile page has 19 pages of activity. Is there a easier way to find a specific thread?
"Eventually, the wire on the expander holding one of my headgear tubes broke, and I decided that removable, teeth-anchored appliances are not good for protraction in adults"
That seems like a weird conclusion just because the wire broke. How long were you able to use the facemask before it broke?
Did you use a acrylic expander from braceshop?
I just read every single post up until the wire snapped. The facemask was a rather short-lived experiment. Shame.
I am ready to make my own experiment with a intra-oral appliance and a facemask. Its going to be some time before that happens but i will do it sooner or later.
Unfortunately, doing what varbrah does is not easy. MSE is expensive, and convincing a orthodontic to put screws in your head because "need that jawline brah" is very unlikely, exspecially when you dont have malocclusion.
I havent looked at the tread in a long time (finding threads on this forum is obnoxious). Has he posted his x-rays yet?
You said you initially achieved 7mm of expansion. Do you know how much you have relapsed?
I just read every single post up until the wire snapped. The facemask was a rather short-lived experiment. Shame.
I am ready to make my own experiment with a intra-oral appliance and a facemask. Its going to be some time before that happens but i will do it sooner or later.
Unfortunately, doing what varbrah does is not easy. MSE is expensive, and convincing a orthodontic to put screws in your head because "need that jawline brah" is very unlikely, exspecially when you dont have malocclusion.
I havent looked at the tread in a long time (finding threads on this forum is obnoxious). Has he posted his x-rays yet?
You said you initially achieved 7mm of expansion. Do you know how much you have relapsed?
I was certainly disappointed with the extra-oral traction component of my experiment, especially considering the time and money that I put into it. I hope you will have more success. I just encourage you to compare how different it feels to pull up and forward directly on the palate with your thumbs versus how it feels to pull up and forward on the headgear tubes of a removeable appliance. For me, the force just wasn't translating to the palate. Maybe there's a better way to achieve that with a removable appliance but I wasn't able to figure it out. If you're able to get your tongue into the correct position, tongue pressure might be better. I haven't been able to take a reliable intermolar measurement recently, but I'm pretty sure that I have had some relapse. Maybe this is just correction of dental tipping. To my knowledge, Varbrah hasn't completed his stabilization period yet and hasn't posted x-rays.
I was certainly disappointed with the extra-oral traction component of my experiment, especially considering the time and money that I put into it. I hope you will have more success. I just encourage you to compare how different it feels to pull up and forward directly on the palate with your thumbs versus how it feels to pull up and forward on the headgear tubes of a removeable appliance. For me, the force just wasn't translating to the palate. Maybe there's a better way to achieve that with a removable appliance but I wasn't able to figure it out. If you're able to get your tongue into the correct position, tongue pressure might be better. I haven't been able to take a reliable intermolar measurement recently, but I'm pretty sure that I have had some relapse. Maybe this is just correction of dental tipping. To my knowledge, Varbrah hasn't completed his stabilization period yet and hasn't posted x-rays.
I dont really feel anything when i use my thumbs, apart from the direct pressure on my skin. Is that different for you?When you wore the headgear, did you ever have a sensation/pain that was different from the pain/sensation you got by wearing the expander on its own? Last question, the facebow you and mike mew use is by default, used to move back the teeth. Maybe i am mistaken, but why didnt you use a reverse pull headgear, which is designed to move the jaw forwards?
A reverse pull headgear is one option for your external fixation. Mew and others prefer not to use it because it relies on a reciprocal force against the mandible. Alternatives include a helmet like Plato and I used, a neck brace like the Crane and the second generation MewVector, or the Forwardontics/Chimpancerda BOW. A "facebow" is not an alternative to these kinds of external anchorage systems (and shouldn't be confused with the Forwardontics/Chimpancerda "BOW"). The facebow provides the attachment for the opposite end of the traction, connecting to the intraoral appliance. For example, it falls in the same category as the paperclips that Plato hooked onto his braces. You could connect the front of the facebow to a reverse pull headgear and then add a contraption on the side of the head to connect the back of the facebow. It isn't one or the other. Mew and I used the facebow because, in combination with the anterior upward and forward forces, it allows for the addition of the upward force on the posterior part of the intraoral appliance and is supposed to create the rotational effect that qwerty135 was asking about (shown in the diagram posted above). For example, I have gingival display over my posterior teeth but a low lip line over my anterior teeth, and I hoped that this rotational protraction could help raise the back of my maxilla. This is the same reason that Dr. Mew emphasizes the importance of engaging the posterior third of the tongue. When I used my extra-oral traction apparatus, I could feel a good, steady pull, but unfortunately that force felt mostly loaded on my teeth rather than my palate, so I suspended the practice.
This is now the second orthodontist who says you can use a protraction device with a removeable oral appliance. I wonder why no one is actually experimenting with this on this forum. Its very simple and cheap to do (200-300$).
My friend used a makeshift bow device with a removeable active plate retainer with incredible success. I have attached a 10-day progress photo wearing it 24/7 (you heard me, 10 days!) People I showed the before and after photo to said he went from about a 2.5 to a 4.5 or even greater 🤣 . You can clearly see at least 2cm of forward growth achieved in this incredible timeframe.
He now has the legit bow and a damon system in and has been wearing it for another month now only at night time (and again doubled the results of the before and after photo!) I will get some more photos from him soon and yes the results have been ridiculous. For the first time in his life he is getting appreciation from the opposite gender.
I purchased my own Bow. It arrives in a week and I will be using it with my active plate retainer the same way (and post tons of progress pictures!)
Here is a photo of my friend on his first day of using the Bow purchased from forwardontics (after getting incredible results with his own makeshift version.)
My friend used a makeshift bow device with a removeable active plate retainer with incredible success. I have attached a 10-day progress photo wearing it 24/7 (you heard me, 10 days!) People I showed the before and after photo to said he went from about a 2.5 to a 4.5 or even greater 🤣 . You can clearly see at least 2cm of forward growth achieved in this incredible timeframe.
He now has the legit bow and a damon system in and has been wearing it for another month now only at night time (and again doubled the results of the before and after photo!) I will get some more photos from him soon and yes the results have been ridiculous. For the first time in his life he is getting appreciation from the opposite gender.
@jimbobape I hope your friend approves of you sharing his pictures publicly. The top is before and the bottom is after? I'd be curious to hear people like @progress and @abdulrahman analyze the changes. I'm not really sure what I'm seeing, since it's hard to assess when you can't visualize the back of his neck/head in the "after" shot and with the changes in lighting. His mandible does appear a little more prominent, but maybe that's the camera angle. It is interesting to hear he believes that he saw significant change. Was he expanding at the same time or only using the protraction?
I dont see any changes in his face that cannot be attributed to headposture and lighting/angle. I also cant even see his entire face in the bottom picture.
2cm in 10 days is impossible man. Absolutely, without a doubt, impossible.
Its also a shame how these kind of threads always die down so fast.
2cm forward growth in 10 days? Did he load the elastics with 10kg?
Or was it 2mm?
Its impossible..
Plus you don't see much difference in the before and after pictures other than a huge lighting one and maybe head posture.
His nasolabial angle hasn't changed one bit..lol
@jimbobape has your BOW arrived? How do you like it? Do you or your friend have any advice to better secure it to the chest and forehead? The velcro straps that come with it don't seem very stable, especially for an adult body size.
Yes it has arrived. It gets the job done and I'm seeing significant improvements. We don't have much advice and are experiencing similar problems with these devices being made for children. Longer velcro straps are needed to strap around an adult chest size, so far we have been taking the straps meant for the shoulders and using them to double up the chest strap.
@jimbobape has your BOW arrived? How do you like it? Do you or your friend have any advice to better secure it to the chest and forehead? The velcro straps that come with it don't seem very stable, especially for an adult body size.Yes it has arrived. It gets the job done and I'm seeing significant improvements. We don't have much advice and are experiencing similar problems with these devices being made for children. Longer velcro straps are needed to strap around an adult chest size, so far we have been taking the straps meant for the shoulders and using them to double up the chest strap.
What type of elastics is your friend using? Do you know the brand name? How much force do they exert?
Have you had trouble with the head straps as well? I find that I could barely fit the thing around my head, and I wear relatively small caps in adult sizes.
Interested in this!
-MO
any update ?
@jimbobape has your BOW arrived? How do you like it? Do you or your friend have any advice to better secure it to the chest and forehead? The velcro straps that come with it don't seem very stable, especially for an adult body size.Yes it has arrived. It gets the job done and I'm seeing significant improvements. We don't have much advice and are experiencing similar problems with these devices being made for children. Longer velcro straps are needed to strap around an adult chest size, so far we have been taking the straps meant for the shoulders and using them to double up the chest strap.
@jimbopape updateeee
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