Curious to see if any long term mewers have managed to reduce their indicator line, and if so how much and what time period. Perhaps that can give us an idea of what's possible and the speed to expect change.
Yeah, some time ago I lowered it from 50mm to about 40mm, now it's around 36-38mm, I don't think it will get any lower than this.
There's been some other weird stuff going on, the tip of my nasal bone has been definitely moving upwards.
But IMO there's no aesthetic point to reducing your indicator line, maybe you'll increase your IMW, but that's it. There's a lot of functional benefit of breathing to reduce indicator line, as a short indicator line implies that the lower maxilla is remodelled upwards, sideways and forwards.
Very interesting. What was the timeframe this happened over? Was this just from practicing the tropic premise or did you use specific techniques like hard mewing, thumb pulling, etc?
My Mew Indicator Line has remained consistent at about 45mm even though I think I've gotten some minor forward expansion during my MSE+FM treatment based on how far I can jut my lower incisors beyond my upper incisors.
Do you think the "jaw jutting" test is a good measure of how far forward the mandible needs to come?
Do you think the "jaw jutting" test is a good measure of how far forward the mandible needs to come?
I don't think the farthest you can jut your jaw shows you where it is supposed to be. However, to get a sense of my progress, I have done the extremes of protruding my mandible as far forward as I can and retruding it back as far as I can. During my MSE+FM treatment, it seems like I can now retrude the lower teeth farther behind the upper teeth and can't protrude the lower teeth as far ahead of the upper teeth. I also try to position my mandible around where it is most comfortable regardless of occlusion and then imagine where my maxilla would need to be to allow my mandible to rest there all the time. To get a sense for this natural position I'll yawn widely and then hinge my jaw closed without retruding it, or I'll hold something like a tongue depressor between my incisors, or I'll say words with an "s" sound like San Francisco, or I'll open and close my jaw with my little fingers inside my ears and feel for movement in the TMJ. It seems like before my MSE+FM treatment the comfortable position for my mandible placed my lower incisors slightly ahead of my upper incisors. Now it seems like the comfortable position is about end-on-end.
Very interesting. What was the timeframe this happened over? Was this just from practicing the tropic premise or did you use specific techniques like hard mewing, thumb pulling, etc?
3 years. I did not use any specific techniques to achieve this, I used soft mewing. I believe all the change to come from lower maxilla remodeling upwards and forwards. It's also very clearly visible when I pull my lip up, you can now easily see that my gums above my upper teeth are pushed outwards with the teeth.
Something like this(it's a drawn maxilla, it's not anatomically accurate, but you should get the point):
@apollo Apollo you actually pulled the triggered with MSE+FM?!!! How was the treatment? How long did it last? How much MM did u expand and protract the maxila? Any aesthetic and/or functional results?
@apollo Apollo you actually pulled the triggered with MSE+FM?!!! How was the treatment? How long did it last? How much MM did u expand and protract the maxila? Any aesthetic and/or functional results?
Treatment is still ongoing, and there have been some complications along the way, but it seems to be working now. I'll post more about it when I've finished and can better evaluate the changes. I'll need imaging to determine how much forward expansion I've gotten, but it feels slightly less retruded. Hopefully I'll still get a little more, but this is challenging in adults. Aesthetic changes have been subtle, but I think my face looks better. My smile is obviously wider, and I think my midface volume appears slightly fuller, but not to the extent that people would comment on it. This is hard to quantify on before and after pictures, so maybe I'm just imagining when I look in the mirror. It is easier to correctly posture my tongue and head. My breathing and sleeping are definitely improved, but still not perfect, and I'm hoping to feel better rested once the treatment is complete.
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