This is a pretty common problem. For many people ideal tongue posture simply isn't possible. In such cases you have to find the best compromise position to get moving in the right direction until the correct posture is possible. In the kind of anatomy you describe, you can either position the tip of the tongue farther back behind the rugae and gradually advance as your vault becomes shallower, or position the tip of your tongue at the incisive papillae and just do your best to get the middle of your tongue as flush as possible. Which method is better will depend on your individual structure and habits. A myofunctional therapist might be able to help you decide what to do. You might also need to consider appliances to help jump start your progress and get you closer to a conformation where your tongue can correctly engage the palate.

Thank you, Great answer. Kinda sucks because that means I am not lifting a whole inch of the maxilla up and forwards when I dont/cant put the tip on the palatine rugae.

Also, which appliances would you recommend? I live in the UK, so K could visit Dr Mike Mew, but I dont know any other myofuctional therapists in the UK.

How long have you been mewing for? My palate is (was) pretty vaulted and I actually had the same problem as you when I started.

What worked for me was to keep the tip of the tongue behind the incisors as commonly recommended, I think this is essential as it serves almost like a muscular ‘insertion’ for tongue in the absence of one and is a crucial base for learning to mew. It took some time, but I was able to slowly train the medial tongue to bend and engage the palatine rugae despite the weird positioning and its steepness relative to the incisive papilla.

Other than the passive approach I described above, an exercise that really helped me develop the tongue connection in this case was to begin with the tip of my tongue at the back of my palate, to slowly sweep it forward and flatten it along the roof of the mouth. At the end of the exercise, I would have my tongue completely engaged and pushing against my palate, except for the tip against the incisive papilla, which I could then work on forcing to turn up and engage properly.

Sounds like a lot of trial and error!

And I have been mewing Since July 2018, but found out about Orthotropics since January 2018.

I just turned 17.

Right now im trying to hollow out my palate as much as possible to the point where all the upper palate except the teeth are completely carved out ready for the tongue to support the maxilla completely: Its not easy, Tongue chewing will hopefully help.

Also, I really want to start a Community YouTube channel for mewing, think it would be really good and beneficial as this we can help people and also expand our own knowledge aswell. I know theres the Orthotropic channel but thats specifically Dr Mews Own opinions and most oftenly he doesnt really respond to us.

Posted by: Sorrow

Thank you, Great answer. Kinda sucks because that means I am not lifting a whole inch of the maxilla up and forwards when I dont/cant put the tip on the palatine rugae.

 

Also, which appliances would you recommend? I live in the UK, so K could visit Dr Mike Mew, but I dont know any other myofuctional therapists in the UK.

What's your intermolar width? Whether you want an appliance and which one you choose depends on your baseline structure and your goals. Varbrah has been advocating a bone-anchored expander with extra-oral traction for both transverse and sagittal changes. The FAGGA focuses on sagittal changes with some transverse expansion during the controlled arch phase and the little acrylic pad would push on the steep alveolar ridge behind your upper incisors. If you are just looking for transverse expansion, a basic removable acrylic expander or a branded derivative like the DNA appliance or homeoblock could work. The ALF or an activator like the myobrace supply gentle expansion while allowing flexibility to improve arch symmetry. Often, finding the right practitioner who focuses on creating tongue space and protecting the ariway is more important than which specific expander they prefer as many different devices can give you enough progress to get your tongue into the right position. If you want to consult with a myofunctional therapist but can't find one in your area, you could schedule an appointment online with someone like Sarah Hornsby.

Posted by: Sorrow

Sounds like a lot of trial and error!

And I have been mewing Since July 2018, but found out about Orthotropics since January 2018.

I just turned 17.

 

Right now im trying to hollow out my palate as much as possible to the point where all the upper palate except the teeth are completely carved out ready for the tongue to support the maxilla completely: Its not easy, Tongue chewing will hopefully help.

 

Also, I really want to start a Community YouTube channel for mewing, think it would be really good and beneficial as this we can help people and also expand our own knowledge aswell. I know theres the Orthotropic channel but thats specifically Dr Mews Own opinions and most oftenly he doesnt really respond to us.

Less trial and error, more so conscious effort and will. You can get the tongue to move in a pretty versatile manner - just a matter of building the mind-muscle connection.

Very Informative.

What is the best way I can Measure my InterMolar Width from home?

Also would a palatal expansion be possible with a traditional orthodontist or would I specifically have to get it done by a specialist.

Do you think it would cost a lot to get it done privately? and would it be possible to get an expansion done at the age of 17/18?

Posted by: Sorrow

Very Informative.

What is the best way I can Measure my InterMolar Width from home?

Also would a palatal expansion be possible with a traditional orthodontist or would I specifically have to get it done by a specialist.

Do you think it would cost a lot to get it done privately? and would it be possible to get an expansion done at the age of 17/18?

Measure IMW with a ruler or tape measure. If you’re having trouble then ask a sibling or parent.

Some orthos are dorks and would rather extract teeth than expand palates - avoid. Many traditional orthos do use expanders though, but if you want what I’m using (MSE+FM, highly recommend) then yes you’d need a specialist.

Cost to get it done privately for me was $10k, which considering the benefits so far has been worth every penny and more. If you have airway problems, for example (I did), the relief is instantaneous with the MSE. I’m also using the MSE as a bone-anchor to pull my entire maxilla forward.

Shit is cash. I’m just a month into treatment and my face went from relatively undefined to chiseled with just 1cm of expansion and 2-3mm of maxillary protraction, and I can breath like a god.

Sounds Amazing!

Which specialist are you seeing?

I dont have any breathing/Airway Problems, or havent had any orthodontic treatment done.

Ive seen a significant increase of expanding the dental arch by chewing mastic gum with the front teeth for long periods of time + with hard mewing: increasing the inner U also.

It is a lot of trial and error.  It takes time and persistence and re-reading, over and over.  As your tongue muscles get stronger and your posture gets better, and as slow changes occur, you will have quite a few "aha" moments! 

I progressed more rapidly a couple months after I had my frenectomy and it healed and I could practice stretching my tongue.  Correct tongue position was still very difficult, but I was getting better and better at it.  Sometimes I would just sort of "explore" the roof of my tongue with my tip, just to get more comfortable. 

I have the position down, I'm still working very hard at swallowing the right way.  Sometimes I have to read about that a few times.  It still doesn't come natural, but I can say I'm better at it and I can do it.  It takes a conscious effort.  I'm also having nights when I wake up and my mouth is open, other nights, I can sleep with my mouth closed no problem. 

I've been at this since August 2017, got my frenectomy in Jan/Feb 2018 (took two visits, it was so tight).  Considering I've spent 48 years of my life with poor oral posture, I'm very patient with myself in understanding all this. 

Don't worry, just time and practice and you'll perfect your technique, I remember when I started it took me exactly 14 days do correctly place my tongue.