Is there a age where skeletal expansion becomes harder to achieve with expansion? I heard the bones harden which makes it harder to achieve skeletal expansion. I want 1 cm skeletal expansion.
Easiest for kids and teens, gets harder for adults but I believe expansion is possible at any age. It just takes longer in your 20's +
Don't worry about the time frame; just make proper oral posture a habit and reap the benefits in the future
accnum2 the truth is that sufficient results have NOT yet been recorded (sufficient meaning more than 2 millimetres), though we are in early stages. If people on this forum start measuring their mew indicator score within 2 years we will have some HARD FACTS about maxilla movement in adults
Idk about you guys, but all this mewing is making my teeth sore... and almost 2 months in O.o it has become MUCH easier, can maintain it all the time now. The inside of my cheeks has white lines where the teeth meet. There is 100% movement going on. Its working imo.
accnum2 the truth is that sufficient results have NOT yet been recorded (sufficient meaning more than 2 millimetres), though we are in early stages. If people on this forum start measuring their mew indicator score within 2 years we will have some HARD FACTS about maxilla movement in adults
You confuse forward growth with palatal expansion, which has already been done for years all over the world. Mew Indicator also is an imperfect measurement in the sense that the tip of the nose will often move along with the maxilla. Managing to move maxilla a few millimeters forward will not necessarily change MIS at all, whereas simply tilting incisors forward with zero maxillary movement can change the score for several millimeters.
accnum2 the truth is that sufficient results have NOT yet been recorded (sufficient meaning more than 2 millimetres), though we are in early stages. If people on this forum start measuring their mew indicator score within 2 years we will have some HARD FACTS about maxilla movement in adults
You confuse forward growth with palatal expansion, which has already been done for years all over the world. Mew Indicator also is an imperfect measurement in the sense that the tip of the nose will often move along with the maxilla. Managing to move maxilla a few millimeters forward will not necessarily change MIS at all, whereas simply tilting incisors forward with zero maxillary movement can change the score for several millimeters.
Is this documented? I haven't heard of this.
Also, yes tipping incisors will reduce the score but that is simply because the score is meant to be used on people with normal incisor inclination. Keep in mind that people with previous orthodontic treatment will have an artificially higher score because their incisors are retroclined, so it works both ways.
Also, even if someone has bimax it won't artificially give them a good mew indicator line score. The score is a good indicator because even in cases like this the score is very high.
Incisor proclination gives you your true score since our incisors are not meant to be retroclined.
What mode of measurement do you think would be better?
Progress, i never confused palate expansion with forward/upward growth. You make a good point that the incisors may move slightly forward though this would be MINIMAL in most cases, and there isnt as of yet a better method of recording objective data for forward/upward maxilla movement than the mew indicator score.
Also in terms of maxillary development, the Mew Indicator score is helpful because I have yet to see a good score on someone with bad development.
@eddiemoney Since CFD manifests uniquely for each person, and since resolving CFD most often means that the many of the bones of the skull are to shift to a new dynamic in relation to each other, I find it hard to believe that a single linear measurement is ever going to provide much objectivity. Not in the way a 3D scan would.
Mew has admitted that as of now he is not sufficiently familiar with the anatomy of the skull to understand everything that occurs during the process of fixing CFD. As a dentist he is predominantly focused on maxillary movement, which is why he may not be aware of potential drawbacks of his line indicator. I am not saying this as if my understanding was somehow superior to his, but rather from a different perspective due to my own journey.
>"Is this documented? I haven't heard of this."
Well, it would have to, wouldn't it? When there is a hump in the nose, it's not the middle part that projects too far, it's the tip/body of the nose that doesn't project sufficiently in order to align with the direction of the hump (= direction of the nasal bone). The tip and base of the nose are just cartilage and soft tissue that "sits" on the maxilla, and will thus, to certain extent, move with it. To me this seems evident in the pics I have seen. Perhaps you disagree. No harm done.
@mewer000 My bad for misunderstanding you.
@Progress my issue with your theory is it does not work the other way. Meaning when the maxilla collapses down it doesn't pull the soft tissue of the nose with it. It moves away from the nose tip and increases the line more and more. This is why I don't see why it would mean the indicator line would remain the same if maxillary forward movement occurs.
Issue is i will probably need to expand. Lets say i need to expand. I want the expansion to be skeletal. How can i make sure the expansion is skeletal? Expand at lower rate? I want to make sure 1 mm on palate expansion means 1 mm of skeletal expansion making my midface wider.
@Progress my issue with your theory is it does not work the other way. Meaning when the maxilla collapses down it doesn't pull the soft tissue of the nose with it. It moves away from the nose tip and increases the line more and more.
But it does - maybe a picture will illustrate it better. The red line roughly represents the natural direction of the nasal bridge, as determined by the nasal bone. With ideal development, her nose would more or less follow this line all the way down to the tip. But in this case, her maxilla is collapsed, which has pulled the lower portion of the nose down with it:
@accnum2 The generally accepted rate for skeletal expansion is 1 mm per week. Have a look at Apollo's thread, it should shed some light into the what the process will entail: /community/community/case-discussions/my-routine/
Posted by: EddieMoney
Is this documented? I haven't heard of this.
Also, yes tipping incisors will reduce the score but that is simply because the score is meant to be used on people with normal incisor inclination. Keep in mind that people with previous orthodontic treatment will have an artificially higher score because their incisors are retroclined, so it works both ways.
Also, even if someone has bimax it won't artificially give them a good mew indicator line score. The score is a good indicator because even in cases like this the score is very high.
Incisor proclination gives you your true score since our incisors are not meant to be retroclined.
What mode of measurement do you think would be better?
Logically if the nose swings up proportionately with the rest of the maxilla, there won't be any change in the distance between the tip of the nose and the incisors. This assumes that the changes are all based on shifting of the maxilla along suture lines and not based on remodeling of the palate. I suspect there is some combination of both, so the soft tissue of the nose wouldn't move as far up and forward as the alveolar ridge, causing a measure of change along the mew indicator line.
That being said, I've asked in other threads about another potential measurement to document forward growth, and haven't gotten much feedback. Do you think protruding the mandible as far forward as possible into an underbite posture and then measuring the distance between the lower incisors and the upper incisors would document forward change in the maxilla? I'm not sure if decompressing the TMJ through forward maxillary growth would allow the mandible to reach even farther forward, or if there would be less and less distance between the incisors with forward maxillary changes. I've mentioned before that I can protrude my lower incisors about 5mm beyond my upper incisors. Do you think this will decrease if I am able to move my maxilla forward? It seems like they track FAGGA progress by measuring the gaps that open between the canines and first bicuspids. I wonder if there are any other measurements they take to track progress since those gaps also include some backward movement of the posterior teeth.
Issue is i will probably need to expand. Lets say i need to expand. I want the expansion to be skeletal. How can i make sure the expansion is skeletal? Expand at lower rate? I want to make sure 1 mm on palate expansion means 1 mm of skeletal expansion making my midface wider.
Expanding at a slower rate makes dental movement more likely than skeletal. Dr. Mew recommends a "semi-rapid" rate of about 1mm per week. During my expansion I turned the screw at a slightly slower rate of 1/4mm every 2-5 days. How fast you can go depends on a number of factors including your age. I decided to listen to my body and advance the screw when I felt like the expander wasn't as tight in my mouth but no sooner than 2 days and no later than 5 days.
@Progress my issue with your theory is it does not work the other way. Meaning when the maxilla collapses down it doesn't pull the soft tissue of the nose with it. It moves away from the nose tip and increases the line more and more.
But it does - maybe a picture will illustrate it better. The red line roughly represents the natural direction of the nasal bridge, as determined by the nasal bone. With ideal development, her nose would more or less follow this line all the way down to the tip. But in this case, her maxilla is collapsed, which has pulled the lower portion of the nose down with it:
@accnum2 The generally accepted rate for skeletal expansion is 1 mm per week. Have a look at Apollo's thread, it should shed some light into the what the process will entail: /community/community/case-discussions/my-routine/
thanks will aim for 1mm per week with ALF when i get expansion. How is expansion in lower palate achieved since it is single bone if im right? Is there any way to measure how downswung i am? I have no undereye support and the undereye bones are 1cm below bottom point of eyes
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