THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I read on reddit about a guy (30yo) who has been mewing for 7 months but he also used to press the tongue against the palate as hard as he could for as long as he could until his tongue would feel a burning sensation, in between those intense sessions he just mantained a mildly hard preassure throughout the day.. not only resting the tongue on the roof of the mouth but pressing hard. In other words mewing 2.0 .. now he says that he regret doing this (even though he's not sure if doing this was the cause) because now hes upper face is very wide and it looks disproportionate. He wanted to gain forward and upper development and probably widen the face too but not as much. But he only gained width and, according to him, too much width, he then warns everybody about doing this hard pushing version.
What are your thoughts about this? I also sometimes mantain a hard preassure against the palate to "accelerate" the results, but his testimony made me doubtful and fearful.
It depends what you mean by hard, I suppose. I use a firm pressure throughout the day but it isn't anywhere close to "as hard as possible." That is REALLY bloody hard and not a single people would ever develop that sort of habit naturally. You only need 1 gram of total force to influence bone growth (or so I've heard). It's hard to quantify how much force I use but it could be described as feeling the upper side of my tongue being noticeably compressed but nothing that burns/hurts or causes throbbing etc. I'm getting good results this way. It's nice because I think it offers better surface contact, is easier to notice if you've stopped doing it and is good for acting as a counter force to your jaw.
Not super related so forgive me, @skull but I'd like to ask everyone here what they think of using tongue suction to adhere the tongue to the palate? As my tongue has gotten stronger and increased its endurance I have been moving away from using suction. I think any sort of downwards (pulling) force should be avoided if possible and letting your tongue "hang" there is not helping for developing its strength. I also feel as if it reduces surface contact by causing the tongue to shrink up a bit. It seems to me that tongue suction is more for people learning proper oral posture and becoming familiar with where the tongue should be positioned. Surely it is very hard/unfeasible for people with very arched/narrow palates to achieve good suction anyway, right?
For some reason I can only mew extremely hard or not at all. Tongue doesn't stay up there
but I don't see why simply changing the intensity of a force would change the way in which the body responds. His growth may have been accelerated, but why should it be different?
Thanks for your response @krollic seems logical, I'll continue using a voluntary light push against the palate. I also share your idea on it vs the resting tongue position staying in place only by suction. By the way how old are you and for how long have you been mewing and what results have you seen?
Really? Interesting, let us know about your results
By the way how old are you and for how long have you been mewing and what results have you seen?
23. Around 2 months now. Intermolar width is up to about 42 .5mm from 39. A slight dorsal hump on my nose has now flattened out almost completely and also looks relatively smaller. Cheekbones are raised and forward slightly. Pretty sure jaw has come forward and has stopped clicking when I move it. Palate feels notably more flat and easier to work with. Jaw muscles are a lot stronger and more defined following about a month of my open-mouth chewing regime. Breathing capabilities moderately increased and I don't seem as prone to allergic reactions. I *think*my eyesight has improved slightly and my undereyes look significantly less bruised/purple which I recently discovered was caused by the skin not being supported by the maxilla. Deeper sleep and better sense of well-being.
that guy was also doing a bunch of extra experimental stuff so take his anecdotes with a grain of salt
By the way how old are you and for how long have you been mewing and what results have you seen?
23. Around 2 months now. Intermolar width is up to about 42 .5mm from 39. A slight dorsal hump on my nose has now flattened out almost completely and also looks relatively smaller. Cheekbones are raised and forward slightly. Pretty sure jaw has come forward and has stopped clicking when I move it. Palate feels notably more flat and easier to work with. Jaw muscles are a lot stronger and more defined following about a month of my open-mouth chewing regime. Breathing capabilities moderately increased and I don't seem as prone to allergic reactions. I *think*my eyesight has improved slightly and my undereyes look significantly less bruised/purple which I recently discovered was caused by the skin not being supported by the maxilla. Deeper sleep and better sense of well-being.
woah that is amazing. Do you have a log?
na, I'm not one to record my progress in a technical manner. It's pretty selfish of me tbh. I ought to be giving back more w/ evidence
By the way how old are you and for how long have you been mewing and what results have you seen?
23. Around 2 months now. Intermolar width is up to about 42 .5mm from 39. A slight dorsal hump on my nose has now flattened out almost completely and also looks relatively smaller. Cheekbones are raised and forward slightly. Pretty sure jaw has come forward and has stopped clicking when I move it. Palate feels notably more flat and easier to work with. Jaw muscles are a lot stronger and more defined following about a month of my open-mouth chewing regime. Breathing capabilities moderately increased and I don't seem as prone to allergic reactions. I *think*my eyesight has improved slightly and my undereyes look significantly less bruised/purple which I recently discovered was caused by the skin not being supported by the maxilla. Deeper sleep and better sense of well-being.
That is truly awesome indeed, happy for you man. I was just reading about open mouth chewing and decided to try it
that guy was also doing a bunch of extra experimental stuff so take his anecdotes with a grain of salt
Thank you buddy, what are your personal experience and results?
Well, pretty much just OMC. I'm not too much of a hipster.
For some reason I can only mew extremely hard or not at all. Tongue doesn't stay up there
but I don't see why simply changing the intensity of a force would change the way in which the body responds. His growth may have been accelerated, but why should it be different?
This is usually due to a very narrow palate, where the tongue just can't squeeze in there. Another possibility is that the hyoid bone position is very low and dragging down with it the tongue. This requires extra effort to get the tongue up to the palate.
Suction helps the tongue glue to the palate with minimal effort.
Holding the tongue hard against the palate does not make it stronger, exercising the muscle does. That's why Dr. Mew recommends tongue chewing. The body responds differently to the amount of force. Excessive force makes the body resist.
tongue chewing video
my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/
Hello! I am the guy from the Orthotropics subreddit that you are talking about.
I never wrote that I saw only lateral development. I wrote that I saw much more lateral development than forward development in the first 3-4 months and that I indeed was hoping for more forward/upward development in relation to the lateral develoment I saw. Thus I speculated that what I had done perhaps had not been ideal. On the other hand, perhaps it had been just that. It is really hard to tell.. I certaintly think I overreacted a bit about my changes. At the same time, I felt obligated to let people know about how fast it seems to be able to cause growth and change, especially since I was not sure if it caused ideal development or not (I'm still not sure) which I assume regular mewing causes. Just to be clear: As I push upwards I also push against the inner sides of my teeth. I have done so in long sessions with a constant force spread out in sessions during the days. In the beginning I also did so in short sessions with high force, to the point where my tongue muscle started burning, to strengthen my tongue.
In any case, I have changed in more ways since I wrote that post (mostly by mewing normally, but also by some continued "powermewing"). It seems as if I have seen more upwards/forwards development since then. However, I still do not know whether it is ideal and/or safe to do what I have done, so I can not recommend anyone to do anything like I always point out. I do not want to be responsible for anyone doing something they may end up regretting. This is the main reason why I wanted to post the thread since I knew some people considered pushing upwards a lot ("powermewing"). Since I thought I had seen how powerful it can be I wanted to warn people about its abillity to cause change quickly. If done wrong, or if done by a person with a maxilla that is pretty asymmetrical (which I assume would make it hard to push upwards in a symmetrical way), perhaps the results could be very bad.
Like mentioned above things have improved more since then and I am actually back to pushing upwards with a constant force and have been doing so for some time. Some people have mentioned an "ugly duckling period" in the start of the changing process, perhaps that is partly what it was about. I just figured that I had done something very different combined with the fact that I saw such quick change and that it perhaps was from less than ideal development. Today I am not sure if what I had done was bad at all.
Perhaps any person that might do something like I have done will notice how lateral widening will be more pronounced initially. After all, bone remodeling and bone movement takes longer time. Bone growth goes much more quickly and this is what mostly (if not only?) is involved in the widening of the maxilla to my knowledge. As for forwards and upwards development that is obviously more about bone movement to my knowledge (aside from forward growth) and those results will take longer time. I actually noticed changes with my upper skull pretty recently, I suppose this could have happened from upwards/forwards movement of my maxilla. On the other hand, it could be caused by something very different. Epigenetics is at play to a certain degree no matter what, that is for certain (research if if you do not know about it by now, it is what all modern palatal expander rely upon). It was very easy for me to notice the upper skull changes since I used to have a small bump between the back part of my skull and the front part of it earlier. The front part was sloping downwards and the difference between the higher back part and the lower front part could be felt by that "bump" area. It noticed how it seemed to had change one day as I touched my skull and realized that something felt different. Since then I kept touching that spot every now and then and indeed noticed how it gradualy seemed to smoothen out with time. My upper skull is a lot more round by touch of hand today which to me should mean that the front part has moved upwards. This of course meant that my hairline moved upwards a bit as well (my photos showed this as well). My hairline is still located about 4 fingers width above my eyebrows though so I am still fine with my current hairline.
Someone in this thread wrote that I had done some other experimental stuff and that what I say thus should be taken with a grain of salt. As for the other stuff I have done: I have boosted my HGH levels naturally by intermittent fasting + hitting the gym daily in a fasted state. Research about it if it may interest you. HGH certainly is of relevance when it comes to bone growth. Whether this actually has aided bone development in me or not I obviously do not know, but I certainly do not recognize the experience other people that mew have had. I saw major development within my first 3 months.
I also tried facepulling using a belt for a short period. Whatever tiny change I seemed to see from it, it was temporary. I could even feel how my bite changed after doing it. But again, it was temporary. I today believe it can be very dangerous to do. I advice no one to do it. I have never written about this though, this is the first time I ever mention it. I could choose to not mention it out of embarrassment out of having tested it, but I instead choose to share my experience.
One funny detail I can add: I am today about 0,4 cm taller than when I started. I measured myself a few days ago. From 187,3 cm morning height to 187,7 cm. I really tried to measure myself as tall as I could earlier so I know 100% my prior absolute best height was 187,3 cm and not a tiny amount taller.. When I measured myself at 187,7 cm I just did it in one go. Perhaps If I desperately push it I realize there is some tiny more additional gained height to it. In any case, I am happy about the added height. Hopefully I can gain even more height going forwards, my spine is not as straight as it can be today.
Edit: I just measured myself today as well (the day after I wrote this post). I noticed the same height increase from earlier, I am indeed about 0,4 cm taller today compared to when I started.
I might have written it in an earlier comment but I may as well write it again: The distance between my zygomatic bones has increased with about 1-1,2 cm. I have not measured my increased intermolar width but I assume it has at least increased with as much, within weeks I felt that I had significantly more room for my tongue. I have seen forward development as well, and seemingly also upward development. I have not seen much more (if any) lateral development since the first 4-5 months.
Feel free to ask me any questions you may have. I will most likely check back here in the near future. If not I can always be reached by PM:ing my reddit account "test151515".
Regards, test151515
you sounds a lot more relaxed now! glad youre feeling better
Do you have those morphs of the "recession" that happens with forward growth?
I tagged this mod because we were discussing in another thread how basically forward growth is a misnomer (my words) and that really, a lot of what happens isn't necessarily the maxilla coming forward but it moving to its proper position which is more UP than forward.
Hello! I am the guy from the Orthotropics subreddit that you are talking about.
I never wrote that I saw only lateral development. I wrote that I saw much more lateral development than forward development in the first 3-4 months and that I indeed was hoping for more forward/upward development in relation to the lateral develoment I saw. Thus I speculated that what I had done perhaps had not been ideal. On the other hand, perhaps it had been just that. It is really hard to tell.. I certaintly think I overreacted a bit about my changes. At the same time, I felt obligated to let people know about how fast it seems to be able to cause growth and change, especially since I was not sure if it caused ideal development or not (I'm still not sure) which I assume regular mewing causes. Just to be clear: As I push upwards I also push against the inner sides of my teeth.
In any case, I have changed in more ways since I wrote that post (mostly by mewing normally, but also by some continued "powermewing"). It seems as if I have seen more upwards/forwards development since then. However, I still do not know whether it is ideal and/or safe to do what I have done, so I can not recommend anyone to do anything like I always point out. I do not want to be responsible for anyone doing something they may end up regretting. This is the main reason why I wanted to post the thread since I knew some people considered pushing upwards a lot ("powermewing"). Since I thought I had seen how powerful it can be I wanted to warn people about its abillity to cause change quickly. If done wrong, or if done by a person with a maxilla that is pretty asymmetrical (which I assume would make it hard to push upwards in a symmetrical way), perhaps the results could be very bad.
Like mentioned above things have improved more since then and I am actually back to pushing upwards with a constant force and have been doing so for some time. Some people have mentioned an "ugly duckling period" in the start of the changing process, perhaps that is partly what it was about. I just figured that I had done something very different combined with the fact that I saw such quick change and that it perhaps was from less than ideal development. Today I am not sure if what I had done was bad at all.
Perhaps any person that might do something like I have done will notice how lateral widening will be more pronounced initially. After all, bone remodeling and bone movement takes longer time. Bone growth goes much more quickly and this is what mostly (if not only?) is involved in the widening of the maxilla to my knowledge. As for forwards and upwards development that is obviously more about bone movement to my knowledge (aside from forward growth) and those results will take longer time. I actually noticed changes with my upper skull pretty recently, I suppose this could have happened from upwards/forwards movement of my maxilla. On the other hand, it could be caused by something very different. Epigenetics is at play to a certain degree no matter what, that is for certain (research if if you do not know about it by now, it is what all modern palatal expander rely upon). It was very easy for me to notice the upper skull changes since I used to have a small bump between the back part of my skull and the front part of it earlier. The front part was sloping downwards and the difference between the higher back part and the lower front part could be felt by that "bump" area. It noticed how it seemed to had change one day as I touched my skull and realized that something felt different. Since then I kept touching that spot every now and then and indeed noticed how it gradualy seemed to smoothen out with time. My upper skull is a lot more round by touch of hand today which to me should mean that the front part has moved upwards. This of course meant that my hairline moved upwards a bit as well (my photos showed this as well). My hairline is still located about 4 fingers width above my eyebrows though so I am still fine with my current hairline.
Someone in this thread wrote that I had done some other experimental stuff and that what I say thus should be taken with a grain of salt. As for the other stuff I have done: I have boosted my HGH levels naturally by intermittent fasting + hitting the gym daily in a fasted state. Research about it if it may interest you. HGH certainly is of relevance when it comes to bone growth. Whether this actually has aided bone development in me or not I obviously do not know, but I certainly do not recognize the experience other people that mew have had. I saw major development within my first 3 months.
I also tried facepulling using a belt for a short period. Whatever tiny change I seemed to see from it, it was temporary. I could even feel how my bite changed after doing it. But again, it was temporary. I today believe it can be very dangerous to do. I advice no one to do it. I have never written about this though, this is the first time I ever mention it. I could choose to not mention it out of embarrassment out of having tested it, but I instead choose to share my experience.
One funny detail I can add: I am today about 0,4 cm taller than when I started. I measured myself a few days ago. From 187,3 cm morning height to 187,7 cm. I really tried to measure myself as tall as I could earlier so I know 100% my prior absolute best height was 187,3 cm and not a tiny amount taller.. When I measured myself at 187,7 cm I just did it in one go. Perhaps If I desperately push it I realize there is some tiny more additional gained height to it. In any case, I am happy about the added height. Hopefully I can gain even more height going forwards, my spine is not as straight as it can be today.
I might have written it in an earlier comment but I may as well write it again: The distance between my zygomatic bones has increased with about 1-1,2 cm. I have not measured my increased intermolar width but I assume it has at least increased with as much, within weeks I felt that I had significantly more room for my tongue. I have seen forward development as well, and seemingly also upward development. I have not seen much more (if any) lateral development since the first 4-5 months.
Feel free to ask me any questions you may have. I will most likely check back here in the near future. If not I can always be reached by PM:ing my reddit account "test151515".
Regards, test151515
Do you know that your hairline moved because of this or just because of aging? I have never heard of mewing causing Norwooding so this is concerning.
Hopefully aan increased lower third compensates for an increased upper third.
What do you mean about your slope anyway? Are you male? Most "average" male skulls have a slope
Do you know that your hairline moved because of this or just because of aging? I have never heard of mewing causing Norwooding so this is concerning.
Hopefully aan increased lower third compensates for an increased upper third.
What do you mean about your slope anyway? Are you male? Most "average" male skulls have a slope
I am 100% certain that it is not a result of hair loss. I have not noticed anyting weird regarding hairs in my shower drain for example and my hair looks exactly the same as before. I am 30 years old I do not think I would just suddently see hair loss all of a sudden in the span of a few months.
I did not really like the fact that my hairline moved upwards a bit initially but today I believe the upper skull changes have been for the better. Based on looking at old pictures I believe that I have gone from having a somewhat collapsed upper skull to a better upper skull (my entire skull most likely was collapsed to a certain degree, from maxilla to upper skull it seems).
I was not talking about a slope at the forehead, I was talking about a "bump" between the back part of the skull and the front part of the skull. As in a bump at the top of my head resulting from a difference of height levels between the back of my skull and the front of my skull (I suspect the height difference was too steep before). I still have it to a small degree (to a significantly less degree). It feels a lot more natural to me now as I tough my upper skull with my hands. I imagine that a person normally should not to feel such a clear "bump" in the transition area between the back of the skull and the front of the skull. Perhaps you might not understand what I mean unless I draw it. In any case, my upper skull has certaintly changed by what I have done and my hairline has moved. My hair has stayed put 100% though, I have not lost any hair at all. If the skull changes then the skin where the hair attaches may change its position, this is the conclusion I make based on the changes I have seen regarding my upper skull and my hairline.
Of course, if someone is freaked out by the fact that my hairline has moved upwards then by all means take that into account if you ever would consider doing what I have done. A guy I have plenty of contact with was quite alarmed by this news, he did not want his forehead to change (he saw the changes in my pictures and could indeed see how my hairline had move slightly upwards, among all the other things he could see, such as my changes in cheekbones, jaw position, etc). I suspect that the reason my upper skull changed in me was because it was not quite right to being with. Just as the case was with my nose, it too has changed by getting additional volume. In other words, I do not think anyone with an already well developed upper skull has any reason to suspect it should change by mewing or powermewing.
Do you know that your hairline moved because of this or just because of aging? I have never heard of mewing causing Norwooding so this is concerning.
Hopefully aan increased lower third compensates for an increased upper third.
What do you mean about your slope anyway? Are you male? Most "average" male skulls have a slope
I am 100% certain that it is not a result of hair loss. I have not noticed anyting weird regarding hairs in my shower drain for example and my hair looks exactly the same as before. I am 30 years old I do not think I would just suddently see hair loss all of a sudden in the span of a few months.
I did not really like the fact that my hairline moved upwards a bit initially but today I believe the upper skull changes have been for the better. Based on looking at old pictures I believe that I have gone from having a somewhat collapsed upper skull to a better upper skull (my entire skull most likely was collapsed to a certain degree, from maxilla to upper skull it seems).
I was not talking about a slope at the forehead, I was talking about a "bump" between the back part of the skull and the front part of the skull. As in a bump at the top of my head resulting from a difference of height levels between the back of my skull and the front of my skull (I suspect the height difference was too steep before). I still have it to a small degree (to a significantly less degree). It feels a lot more natural to me now as I tough my upper skull with my hands. I imagine that a person normally should not to feel such a clear "bump" in the transition area between the back of the skull and the front of the skull. Perhaps you might not understand what I mean unless I draw it. In any case, my upper skull has certaintly changed by what I have done and my hairline has moved. My hair has stayed put 100% though, I have not lost any hair at all. If the skull changes then the skin where the hair attaches may change its position, this is the conclusion I make based on the changes I have seen regarding my upper skull and my hairline.
Of course, if someone is freaked out by the fact that my hairline has moved upwards then by all means take that into account if you ever would consider doing what I have done. A guy I have plenty of contact with was quite alarmed by this news, he did not want his forehead to change (he saw the changes in my pictures and could indeed see how my hairline had move slightly upwards, among all the other things he could see, such as my changes in cheekbones, jaw position, etc). I suspect that the reason my upper skull changed in me was because it was not quite right to being with. Just as the case was with my nose, it too has changed by getting additional volume. In other words, I do not think anyone with an already well developed upper skull has any reason to suspect it should change by mewing or powermewing.
Makes sense. I haven't seen in any success pics a change in hairline (at least anything that would strike me as noticeable).
I know my hairline seems "artificially" lower due to my lower third being more prominent from mewing so at least I know my proportions make my forehead appear smaller due to ratios.
Funny how I would love a great maxilla placement but I don't know that I would trade hair for it. Weird how beauty works.
Yeah re: hairline - apologies if this comes off as dismissive, but I've had extensive experience with hair loss and have struggled with it for over a decade. At this age in our 30s we can definitely experience hair loss in the front, both men and women. Each time I have a hair loss event, it's generally subtle and I don't notice it happening until it's noticeably happened. That's because we brush our hair and wash it, it goes on the brush or down the drain and we don't think much of it unless it's huge amounts of shedding such as what can occur after a woman has a baby, or certain medical conditions. I recommend a shampoo called Nizoral which is good for preventing further hair loss.
Another thing that comes to mind is maybe activating the frontalis muscle should be avoided? Not sure how legit this theory is, but if you have this sort of habit of raising the eyebrows, try to train yourself to stop. At the least you will prevent worsening any horizontal lines on the forehead as you get older. I believe massage to relax the muscles and help bring blood to the scalp helps, as well as other methods of stimulation eg: brushing/combing, dermarolling, silicon suction cups and inversion therapy can help as well. Examine diet as well, getting probiotics from fermented food seems especially helpful for hair regrowth (and bone growth too, incidentally).
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
Yeah re: hairline - apologies if this comes off as dismissive, but I've had extensive experience with hair loss and have struggled with it for over a decade. At this age in our 30s we can definitely experience hair loss in the front, both men and women. Each time I have a hair loss event, it's generally subtle and I don't notice it happening until it's noticeably happened. That's because we brush our hair and wash it, it goes on the brush or down the drain and we don't think much of it unless it's huge amounts of shedding such as what can occur after a woman has a baby, or certain medical conditions. I recommend a shampoo called Nizoral which is good for preventing further hair loss.
Another thing that comes to mind is maybe activating the frontalis muscle should be avoided? Not sure how legit this theory is, but if you have this sort of habit of raising the eyebrows, try to train yourself to stop. At the least you will prevent worsening any horizontal lines on the forehead as you get older. I believe massage to relax the muscles and help bring blood to the scalp helps, as well as other methods of stimulation eg: brushing/combing, dermarolling, silicon suction cups and inversion therapy can help as well. Examine diet as well, getting probiotics from fermented food seems especially helpful for hair regrowth (and bone growth too, incidentally).
No offence taken. I am just saying that I have noticed how my actual skull has changed shape and as it has done so the hair itself seems to look identical to the way it looked before I started. If the skull changes shape, and by doing so also increases its volume (which I suspect has happened), I assume it could impact the placement of the skin that goes over the scalp and as such the hairline. I forgot to include that I have noticed how my forehead skin looks more stretched out compared to earlier (which I like). Like mentioned above I think the hairline change I have seen has to due with my skull changes, not hair loss, but I obviously do not know for certain. You can think what you want about it. I guess I will know with more certainty whether I suddently have started seing hair loss or not in a year from now or so (to see if my hairline has changed anything at that point compared to now).
And again, unless a person has a underdeveloped upper cranium I do not think mewing or powermewing in any way will lead to upper skull changes. For me it clearly did lead to this though (seemingly for the better).
Yeah re: hairline - apologies if this comes off as dismissive, but I've had extensive experience with hair loss and have struggled with it for over a decade. At this age in our 30s we can definitely experience hair loss in the front, both men and women. Each time I have a hair loss event, it's generally subtle and I don't notice it happening until it's noticeably happened. That's because we brush our hair and wash it, it goes on the brush or down the drain and we don't think much of it unless it's huge amounts of shedding such as what can occur after a woman has a baby, or certain medical conditions. I recommend a shampoo called Nizoral which is good for preventing further hair loss.
Another thing that comes to mind is maybe activating the frontalis muscle should be avoided? Not sure how legit this theory is, but if you have this sort of habit of raising the eyebrows, try to train yourself to stop. At the least you will prevent worsening any horizontal lines on the forehead as you get older. I believe massage to relax the muscles and help bring blood to the scalp helps, as well as other methods of stimulation eg: brushing/combing, dermarolling, silicon suction cups and inversion therapy can help as well. Examine diet as well, getting probiotics from fermented food seems especially helpful for hair regrowth (and bone growth too, incidentally).
No offence taken. I am just saying that I have noticed how my actual skull has changed shape and as it has done so the hair itself seems to look identical to the way it looked before I started. If the skull changes shape, and by doing so also increases its volume (which I suspect has happened), I assume it could impact the placement of the skin that goes over the scalp and as such the hairline. I forgot to include that I have noticed how my forehead skin looks more stretched out compared to earlier (which I like). Like mentioned above I think the hairline change I have seen has to due with my skull changes, not hair loss, but I obviously do not know for certain. You can think what you want about it. I guess I will know with more certainty whether I suddently have started seing hair loss or not in a year from now or so (to see if my hairline has changed anything at that point compared to now).
And again, unless a person has a underdeveloped upper cranium I do not think mewing or powermewing in any way will lead to upper skull changes. For me it clearly did lead to this though (seemingly for the better).
That stretched out appearance of the forehead effect makes me think that this muscle has gotten stronger and may be part of the effect being observed. When people exercise muscles on the face they can often observe a smoothing sort of effect, which is generally aesthetic as wrinkles get pushed out and are flattened out. You might experience tightness or tension down the road in this area, or it might be a habit that you move this area of your face a lot, so massage can definitely help with that.
I think mewing can help develop the upper third for sure but it generally takes some more time, yeah. I believe I've had that type of growth. Glad to hear the results are pleasing!
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
Hello! I am the guy from the Orthotropics subreddit that you are talking about.
I never wrote that I saw only lateral development. I wrote that I saw much more lateral development than forward development in the first 3-4 months and that I indeed was hoping for more forward/upward development in relation to the lateral develoment I saw. Thus I speculated that what I had done perhaps had not been ideal. On the other hand, perhaps it had been just that. It is really hard to tell.. I certaintly think I overreacted a bit about my changes. At the same time, I felt obligated to let people know about how fast it seems to be able to cause growth and change, especially since I was not sure if it caused ideal development or not (I'm still not sure) which I assume regular mewing causes. Just to be clear: As I push upwards I also push against the inner sides of my teeth.
In any case, I have changed in more ways since I wrote that post (mostly by mewing normally, but also by some continued "powermewing"). It seems as if I have seen more upwards/forwards development since then. However, I still do not know whether it is ideal and/or safe to do what I have done, so I can not recommend anyone to do anything like I always point out. I do not want to be responsible for anyone doing something they may end up regretting. This is the main reason why I wanted to post the thread since I knew some people considered pushing upwards a lot ("powermewing"). Since I thought I had seen how powerful it can be I wanted to warn people about its abillity to cause change quickly. If done wrong, or if done by a person with a maxilla that is pretty asymmetrical (which I assume would make it hard to push upwards in a symmetrical way), perhaps the results could be very bad.
Like mentioned above things have improved more since then and I am actually back to pushing upwards with a constant force and have been doing so for some time. Some people have mentioned an "ugly duckling period" in the start of the changing process, perhaps that is partly what it was about. I just figured that I had done something very different combined with the fact that I saw such quick change and that it perhaps was from less than ideal development. Today I am not sure if what I had done was bad at all.
Perhaps any person that might do something like I have done will notice how lateral widening will be more pronounced initially. After all, bone remodeling and bone movement takes longer time. Bone growth goes much more quickly and this is what mostly (if not only?) is involved in the widening of the maxilla to my knowledge. As for forwards and upwards development that is obviously more about bone movement to my knowledge (aside from forward growth) and those results will take longer time. I actually noticed changes with my upper skull pretty recently, I suppose this could have happened from upwards/forwards movement of my maxilla. On the other hand, it could be caused by something very different. Epigenetics is at play to a certain degree no matter what, that is for certain (research if if you do not know about it by now, it is what all modern palatal expander rely upon). It was very easy for me to notice the upper skull changes since I used to have a small bump between the back part of my skull and the front part of it earlier. The front part was sloping downwards and the difference between the higher back part and the lower front part could be felt by that "bump" area. It noticed how it seemed to had change one day as I touched my skull and realized that something felt different. Since then I kept touching that spot every now and then and indeed noticed how it gradualy seemed to smoothen out with time. My upper skull is a lot more round by touch of hand today which to me should mean that the front part has moved upwards. This of course meant that my hairline moved upwards a bit as well (my photos showed this as well). My hairline is still located about 4 fingers width above my eyebrows though so I am still fine with my current hairline.
Someone in this thread wrote that I had done some other experimental stuff and that what I say thus should be taken with a grain of salt. As for the other stuff I have done: I have boosted my HGH levels naturally by intermittent fasting + hitting the gym daily in a fasted state. Research about it if it may interest you. HGH certainly is of relevance when it comes to bone growth. Whether this actually has aided bone development in me or not I obviously do not know, but I certainly do not recognize the experience other people that mew have had. I saw major development within my first 3 months.
I also tried facepulling using a belt for a short period. Whatever tiny change I seemed to see from it, it was temporary. I could even feel how my bite changed after doing it. But again, it was temporary. I today believe it can be very dangerous to do. I advice no one to do it. I have never written about this though, this is the first time I ever mention it. I could choose to not mention it out of embarrassment out of having tested it, but I instead choose to share my experience.
One funny detail I can add: I am today about 0,4 cm taller than when I started. I measured myself a few days ago. From 187,3 cm morning height to 187,7 cm. I really tried to measure myself as tall as I could earlier so I know 100% my prior absolute best height was 187,3 cm and not a tiny amount taller.. When I measured myself at 187,7 cm I just did it in one go. Perhaps If I desperately push it I realize there is some tiny more additional gained height to it. In any case, I am happy about the added height. Hopefully I can gain even more height going forwards, my spine is not as straight as it can be today.
Edit: I just measured myself today as well (the day after I wrote this post). I noticed the same height increase from earlier, I am indeed about 0,4 cm taller today compared to when I started.
I might have written it in an earlier comment but I may as well write it again: The distance between my zygomatic bones has increased with about 1-1,2 cm. I have not measured my increased intermolar width but I assume it has at least increased with as much, within weeks I felt that I had significantly more room for my tongue. I have seen forward development as well, and seemingly also upward development. I have not seen much more (if any) lateral development since the first 4-5 months.
Feel free to ask me any questions you may have. I will most likely check back here in the near future. If not I can always be reached by PM:ing my reddit account "test151515".
Regards, test151515
First of all sorry if I slightly missunderstood your testimony, I'm glad you found the thread haha, I intended to let you know about this post but for some reason (Lazyness) I didn't.
Thanks for your insightful report, now I am much more confident and will continue dping the powermewing. One funny thing is, I also have been doing Intermitent Fasting for 4 months or so (18:6) but I didn't know it boosted HGH, which is good. Regarding the height thing, that is unexpected but interesting, maybe you do face posture excercices "chin tucks" which could enlongate the vertebrae. One awesome excercice and one of my favorite ones I can recommend to you fully is the bridge. This might be out of topic but since we all are interested in overall improvement I'll mention it. If you're interested you can read it from "Convict Conditioning" this series has changed my life
I think many can expect to "gain" about 1-2 inches of height by the time all is said and done. I recall Plato claiming the he experienced a two inch increase and Ian/patient zero a three inch increase with a combination of NCR and facepulling. On the previous forum there was an user who claimed to have achieved similar increase during palatal expansion. While I suspect the increase was posture, he claimed it to be improved breathing and consequent growth of "small bones". Who knows. Doesn't sound strictly impossible. A synthesis of these two explanatons could be that straightened posture engages the skeleton in a way that encourages bones of the previously underused muscles to thicken under the load. When all thickening is added together, it could become a quantifiable difference.
As for me, I am a generous centimeter / half an inch taller than I used to be.
I think many can expect to "gain" about 1-2 inches of height by the time all is said and done. I recall Plato claiming the he experienced a two inch increase and Ian/patient zero a three inch increase with a combination of NCR and facepulling. On the previous forum there was an user who claimed to have achieved similar increase during palatal expansion. While I suspect the increase was posture, he claimed it to be improved breathing and consequent growth of "small bones". Who knows. Doesn't sound strictly impossible. A synthesis of these two explanatons could be that straightened posture engages the skeleton in a way that encourages bones of the previously underused muscles to thicken under the load. When all thickening is added together, it could become a quantifiable difference.
As for me, I am a generous centimeter / half an inch taller than I used to be.
How old are you?
First of all sorry if I slightly missunderstood your testimony, I'm glad you found the thread haha, I intended to let you know about this post but for some reason (Lazyness) I didn't.
Thanks for your insightful report, now I am much more confident and will continue dping the powermewing. One funny thing is, I also have been doing Intermitent Fasting for 4 months or so (18:6) but I didn't know it boosted HGH, which is good. Regarding the height thing, that is unexpected but interesting, maybe you do face posture excercices "chin tucks" which could enlongate the vertebrae. One awesome excercice and one of my favorite ones I can recommend to you fully is the bridge. This might be out of topic but since we all are interested in overall improvement I'll mention it. If you're interested you can read it from "Convict Conditioning" this series has changed my life
No problem.
Happy to share my information and glad that you are confident in "powermewing". I do still not know if it is something that is ideal to do though, perhaps it can also be a risky thing to do. Among other things, perhaps some people can see significant flaring from it.
I have indeed made a lot of effort when it comes to my body and head posture as well. I find that mewing automatically improves body and head posture, but I certainly put a lot of conscious effort into improving it as well. For example while I'm sitting in front of my computer, I pretty much do so in "chin-tuk" mode.
I might check out the series you recommend. Glad you mentioned it.
As for HGH secretion, I do believe it can be of much relevance for bone growth as well as for bone remodeling. HGH drops significantly starting from early 20s, Mike Mew has said that "for a lot of change to happen, there needs to be growth". Plenty of studies published in peer reviewed journals have shown how humans (and especially males) can boost their HGH levels naturally by a lot by intermittent fasting a lone if done for long enough of a period. For the curious, search and you will find these studies. This is not some recent discovery, this has been known for a long time.
Studies have also shown how intense exercises, such as sprints or heavy lifts, will boost HGH as well (as well as testosterone). I keep my fasted gym sessions short and intense (not longer than 30 minutes, sometimes as short as 15-20) just to get that HGH boost. If done for too long cortisol may be secreted which interferes with HGH secretion according to what I have read.
@skull Neurocranial restructuring is a type of endonasal balloon therapy.
@Silver Born in 1992
@test151515 as someone who has walked down and back up the path you are currently walking, try to put less weigh on what studies claim should happen within your body, and more on what you directly measure to be true. Since you believe in universal benefits of IF strongly enough to talk about it in every post, I'd imagine you would at least be tracking your hormones, thyroid, possibly pre/post feeding pulse and temperature too in order to justify this belief to yourself.
It's good to remember that fasting is always a state of stress. A starving body will do everything it can to help you find food, even make you feel good enough to get you off your ass and survive. Yet everything has a price. You have to get enough protein, sugar, salt, fat to sustain the daily stress you are putting yourself through. In a few years of time you will know whether your definition of "enough" truly was enough. It will be HARD WORK to eat sufficient amounts of nutritious food within such a short window, because what is sufficient will be more than what makes you satiated. And then you will have to consider whether the stress of refeeding with huge amounts at a time could possibly negate the benefits you were hoping to achieve with your trendy meal timing in the first place. Hopefully the outcome will bet better for you than it is for many others.
To put it bluntly, this community has to exist because scientific authorities are linearly thinking drones with no practical sense. If the people uniting under the label of science were not idiots, there would be no problem to begin with. Most studies have little universal utility. You HAVE to study principles, not just their effects down the line, should you desire to comprehend more than merely that which you believe to be true. Once you understand a principle, you understand how it functions in every possible context. All practical implications of interplay between ignoring hunger and elevated status of one hormone are so dependent on every variable that was NOT measured, that such studies encourage little more than magical thinking when making actual choices about your own, unique life life.
Intermittent fasting could be the greatest thing that happened to you. It could also turn out to be one of the worst. Over time you may end up eating less and less. Your body may decide to compensate for the repeated stress you are putting it through by increasing your sensitivity to stimulating stress hormones like adrenaline and cortisol. As your metabolism slows down, you feel tired and cold. Alternatively you may feel manic from all the stress hormones. You find it hard to think. You sleep a lot or very little. Stay vigilant for similar signs. You may save yourself a year or two of miserable recovery from self-induced burnout.
I mentioned the intermittent fasting + daily fasted gym sessions in my first post in this thread only because another person claimed that I had done some "experimental stuff" aside from the thing I had done that he already had brought up (the "powermewing"). Thus I wanted to explain what could have been the only thing he could have been referring to: My intermittent fasting (which I see as a bit odd, to me that is not "experimental stuff" at all). That is why I mentioned it and I clearly make it clear that this is the reason I bring it up in the comment. I mentioned it once more in a bit more detail in a second comment in this thread since another person mentioned that he too applied IF and since I felt the need to back up my first mention of it with a little more information. If you browse my reddit comments you notice that I very rarely talk about it. Of course I have mentioned it at times though since I do think it might have had some relevance. I figured that my experience seems to be very different from most peoples and perhaps this could have been a contributing factor. Then again, like I always have pointed out while brining it up (and did this time as well): It could very well not have been a factor at all. For example, the fact that I have been so diligent with my tongue contact combined with the fact that I have been "powermewing" perhaps are the main reasons for what has happened in me.
We all secrete HGH to varying degrees and to my knowledge it is of much relevance for bone development. Some people can grow a lot faster than others while expanding the maxilla, perhaps HGH is one of many factors. Some people get HGH supplements at a young age because they secrete too little HGH and as a result see stunted bone growth. Some people grow additional bone mass in their skulls, hands and feet because they secrete too much HGH (known as Acromegaly).
Like I always mention, I am not sure whether the HGH boost from IF + fasted gym sessions boosts HGH enough to make a significant difference while mewing. I have never claimed anything different. People definitely should be aware of the fact that they can boost it a lot though if they fast for long enough of a time. This can to my knowledge be combined with eating enough nutrients during the eating windows. For me this was no problem at all since I did not fast for longer than at absolute most 20-22 hours (mostly I did it for about 17-18 hours). I am not sure about how much such a fasting period combined with gym workouts in the fasted state boosts HGH but I do know that it boosts it to a meaningful degree. There are studies out there for the curious.
I have not recommended anyone to IF. I have tried it out myself and liked it a lot for many reasons. I do not do it all the time though but when I feel like it. These days I do it quite often just like when I started my mewing.
I am not necessarily an advocate of IF. I only mention it because I think it may be of interest for people to research and possibly try out for themselves given that they see a reason to do so based on their findings from their research. I was not aware of how much IF can boost HGH before I saw the studies and I believe that is the case for quite a lot of people. Thus I don't mind spreading the word about it. It could possibly be a factor out of many that could aid the mewing process, no matter how small or big of a factor. For me, even if it would only boost my HGH a little, that is still something (combined with other benefits I noticed from it). I have not measured it and have no plans of doing so either, if it boosts it a lot: Thats great, if it boosts it a little: Still good. So I don't need to find out what the case is, I will still see reason to do it for myself. HGH is good for more things than bone development in people that are growing btw (feel free to research it).
If you want I can send you a picture of how I looked after about 2 months of non stop IF. I was lean as hell with about 87 kg muscle (187,5 cm tall) looking healthier than ever (I have been a frequent gym goer for quite some time now so I know my way around weights..). There was no problem at all to get in all the nutrients needed during the fasting window for me. I noticed no side effects what so ever. This of course may not at all be the experience for other people though. I have read about many positive effects from IF so I was curious about it for those reasons in addition to the HGH boost. It can sometimes be tricky to combine with social life and work though, that is the main reason why I choose to not always do it these days.
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