I'm on the same boat. High gonial angle, protruding lower lip area (due to chin recession). Honestly, I've seen cases where the mandible untucked from the neck, but I've never seen a legit decrease of the gonial angle, which is what I desperately need. In fact, pertinently to the topic of this thread, there is no doubt that mewing improved my face. Before mewing in high school I used to hate my face when I clean shaved. I had the dreaded monkey face, I had a melted look somehow. Now I look more balanced, my lips look more harmonious, nose looks more compact, overall more youthful. The funny thing is that mewing seems to work but not for the purpose originally intended, which is upswing of the maxilla.
I'm on the same boat. High gonial angle, protruding lower lip area (due to chin recession). Honestly, I've seen cases where the mandible untucked from the neck, but I've never seen a legit decrease of the gonial angle, which is what I desperately need. In fact, pertinently to the topic of this thread, there is no doubt that mewing improved my face. Before mewing in high school I used to hate my face when I clean shaved. I had the dreaded monkey face, I had a melted look somehow. Now I look more balanced, my lips look more harmonious, nose looks more compact, overall more youthful. The funny thing is that mewing seems to work but not for the purpose originally intended, which is upswing of the maxilla.
Based on your pics I don't think you need upswing. You need to close your lips properly and expand laterally.
9 months into mewing at the moment, had some IMW change. Higher gonial angle, but I've lost weight too, no visible cheekbone progress like many people state of having. I'm 24 though, so maybe it's too late, I think chewing mastic gum for an hour a day has made my face look a bit better, however, due to my recessed face it has made my cheeks look a bit chubby. I can't win lol.
Yes, slight change, problem is it requires so much effort that makes me wonder if its worth it, considering maybe I stop mewing a couple of days and the progress relapses.
I'm going to ask this AGAIN in hopes of a response
why don't people just bite down hard with the front teeth to bring the front maxilla up? The teeth never need to actually touch each other while doing this– I would assume that would wear the teeth down.....
If I manaaged to do this with my molars, and tip my maxilla clockwise– why cant the opposite be true? Seems to me like front chewing is what keeps the maxilla up from age 5 onwards...
Some people may disagree, but I think this man had significant changes occur at the age of 70. He used a palate expander, along with mewing principles.
Only thing I can say for sure is that my palate has expanded somewhere between 6-8 mm since I started allmost 9 months ago.
The rest is impossible to say for sure, and impossible to document without hightech equipment. But I do feel like my jaw fits a bit differently into my skull than before. Like my occlusion has changed a bit. I still have an overbite though, and still some crooked teeth.
But I never reached the point where mewing became a passive habbit for me, its a conscious effort all the time.
My conclussion is as an adult results are very hard to achieve, and im only talking about palate expasion, maxilla upswing in an adult I think will require a huge effort over many years, so that means its impossible for most people.
I think its a little strange that I have expanded at least 6 mm, but my teeth line up still look pretty much the same.
No change except temporary muscular hypertrophy after over a year.
My primary goal was to get lateral expansion before foreward growth just to be able to fit my tongue in my mouth due to crowding (even with stupidly having my wisdom teeth extracted nearly 6 years, I am now nearly 28 years old.) Severe overbite that 100% covers my lower incisors (which are pointed inwards.)
I feel like Im wasting my time if I cant split the sutures.
I don't thing significant maxilla upswing needs to take many years. Looks like progress got decent upswing in about 2 years, i'm still trying to understand how the tongue can bring the back maxilla down so I can be awear of the proper technique, but i definetly think full body strengthening and postural work will only lead to a wider palate and stronger tongue, which should help maxilla rotation
I think it takes a significant amount of pressure over some time to split the sutures, you have to get your tongue suspended in the palate, or between the molars. Its something that requires your attention and positive action all day, since u have to some jogling to get it up there every single time.
The thing that surprises me is how I have had to change my technique so many times. I find a very good one, where I can feel my tongue doing good work, then only a few days later the same technique is no longer possible, its strange, and sounds stupid. My theory is that tiny changes in the mouth effects your ability to create a vacuum.
At the moment im not able to make a very strong suction cup, and havent been for a while.
But from what I can see, i have been getting good results, but even I am a little dissapointed, I dont think i look much different, and mewing is never gonna morph me into Brad Pitt. I am gonna try to take some pictures and post soon, to get some competent people to see if there has been any change to my side profile, I dont think there is any significant change to see, but I hope im wrong.
WARNING - pictures that some may find disturbing coming up!
This is what my tongue looks like. The upload function doesnt work for me, so here are some links. In order to expand I believe the tongue has to be abused a little bit, unfortunately. I just try to ignore any discomfort coming from my tongue.
I'm going to ask this AGAIN in hopes of a response
why don't people just bite down hard with the front teeth to bring the front maxilla up? The teeth never need to actually touch each other while doing this– I would assume that would wear the teeth down.....
If I manaaged to do this with my molars, and tip my maxilla clockwise– why cant the opposite be true? Seems to me like front chewing is what keeps the maxilla up from age 5 onwards...
I was wondering the same thing and asked a similar question in the Mew Q&A thread. Maybe we get an answer there.
WARNING - pictures that some may find disturbing coming up!
This is what my tongue looks like. The upload function doesnt work for me, so here are some links. In order to expand I believe the tongue has to be abused a little bit, unfortunately. I just try to ignore any discomfort coming from my tongue.
I used to beat up on my tongue pretty bad also. I was basically trying to create lateral expansion through brute force. Not hard mewing. I was literally pushing my tongue between my first molars and trying to push them apart. Not recommended.
A while back I started to focus more on lifting up the back of my tongue and then expanding the rest of my tongue like a balloon. I don’t focus on pushing against the teeth, I just let my tongue squeeze up there however it wants to through the balloon method and the push swallow.
This is working out much better for me. My tongue is much healthier now. Still a little bit of scarring but no pain. Every once in a while I can feel my tongue digging into my teeth, so I back off, and find a slightly different position.
I agree that as an adult you have to put in some extra effort, but your tongue looks pretty painful.
That sounds alot like what I do, I think the damage happens when i bring my tongue up, because it slides against the molars. Right now its also worse than usually. But yes it is painfull, I need to evolve my method.
That sounds alot like what I do, I think the damage happens when i bring my tongue up, because it slides against the molars. Right now its also worse than usually. But yes it is painfull, I need to evolve my method.
One other thing that helped me was to bite down when doing the tongue sweep and keep biting down during the swallow and while re-engaging the tongue posture. Then I switch to the butterfly bite. I found that my tongue was getting damaged by scraping on the bottom of my teeth not the sides, and I was also biting on my tongue without realizing it.
You could also try the tongue pop method without the pop part to establish tongue posture. https://youtu.be/T2nRYF8S7Zo
Im actually doing exactly as you describe all ready, its not even possible for me to get my tongue up without having my teeth together. It is scraping against the side om the molars, usually it doesnt cause any pain, but still some marks. Sometimes though I mess around too much with my tongue, and hit the sharp edges of the teeth. I have my teeth together all the time, I dont clench or anything, but having the teeth apart doesnt make sense to me.
I have not noticed any major change in my facial structure. If there has been changes it is all very subtle. I don’t look significantly more attractive. I used to be very obsessive about making sure I was doing it properly. I am convinced it doesn’t work the way it is claimed! I don’t think it is useless, however. Nose breathing is the best of course. My teeth also have spaced themselves out slightly. I am not sure if it was due to mewing though.
When people believe something to be true it can be very difficult to change that belief. Even if there are mountains of evidence (or in the case of adult mewing, LACK of evidence!) it still is hard to change ones mind. I finally realized that it isn’t working on me, or to my knowledge, any other adult.
I will make a bold statement and say that I don't believe it works for any adult.
I observed many of the so called mewing success stories and they were all either very lacking in details or there were no real changes in them.
- Age: 30 - Started soft mewing on 12 Feb 2019. Have not seen any real results or changes. - Starting IMW: 35 mm - Current IMW: 35 mm - I now believe that mewing is mostly snake oil at least for the purposes discussed on this forum.
Even though the results in adults don't seem very promising (or even existent), maybe the primary benefits are the prevention of further deteriorating / collapsing of the face with age, the improvement of the the ability to breath through the nose, and prevention sleep apnea and therefore an increase in life expectency etc. (We need of course studies to confirm that, but as soon as it becomes a habit, the possible beneftis still outweigh the effort.)
The truth is nobody knows to what extent facial changes in adults are possible. John Mew, who has the most experience, said mewing works for children and change in adults is strictly limited.
However, even the Mews have said multiple times that they don´t know how exactly the changes take place and if the bones just remodel or even grow. If we can figure out how everything fits together, we may be able to develop techniques to achieve bigger changes even in adults.
Mike Mew has also said its beyond his capacity to figure it all out on his own and mainstream orthodontics seem to ridicule the whole thing. In my opinion the best way forward is to make as much noise as possible on social media until mainstream orthodontics can´t ignore the topic anymore. I wish Mike Mew would take a more active role on his youtube channel and publish more case reports and engage more often with his followers, that would help a lot to spread the idea faster... but I can also understand why he may be reluctant to do so.
At this point, I am almost certain that I have achieved some positive facial changes due to mewing. Though it's not drastic, I notice that my cheekbones are more pronounced, my nose seems less prominent, and overall, my face appears more masculine. Pictures, which I have posted on here several months ago, don't show changes that couldn't be chalked up to slight differences in lighting and perspective, but I do notice these improvements in the mirror. It's further supported by the fact that I can now position my tongue further than I was able to when I began mewing.
Although this may not seem very encouraging considering that I started mewing a year and a half ago, it's important to note that at first, I wasn't able to maintain a good oral posture at all. It took me a year just to bring my posture up to an "acceptable" level, and I'm still developing on it. For this reason, it would be unfair for me to say that I've been mewing for 1.5. Realistically, I've only been performing something approximate to a good oral posture for a few months. I hope to see some visible changes between my new comparison photos, which I will take soon.
The reason why many here have not experienced tangible results has multiple aspects. Part of it is possibly because those starting out measure the period of their mewing from the first day that they learned about it, and in doing so, assume that they've been practicing a perfect oral posture from day one. I hope that it's clear why it's unrealistic to expect someone who's had a poor oral posture most of their life to adopt an ideal one at the snap of his fingers.
Another major aspect is that we have not yet adequately figured out the mechanisms by which good facial growth happens. 10 years ago, nobody was even talking about mewing. Just cause we are now, doesn't mean that the available body of research and hypotheses about what makes a good oral posture is complete, and offers effective techniques for facial improvement in adults. I do think that it is possible for an adult to greatly improve his CFD and in doing so maybe even reach his genetic potential, but I doubt that what we know of mewing currently is enough to accomplish this. The bottom line is that we need more research, both on the part of doctors, and curious users on this forum. For this, we must be patient and inquisitive.
Maybe? I can't really tell since pictures can be misleading. All I can say is that I'm 16 and I believe I have been mewing properly for almost 6 months, which is a short enough time span to say that nothing much probably changed. The most I can say is slightly.
I came across some of my old photos recently while I was moving my files from one HDD to another. I had never before compared my frontal pics, so it was surprising to see how much more robust my face has become - which I think is to be expected when almost a centimeter of increase in IMW and several years of aging has taken place. Disregarding aging and the favorable change in lighting, I can assure that I no longer have those bags under the eyes. In fact, the area below my eyes is now smooth and nearly indistinguishable in its tone from the skin around it. There is also a vaguely increased dimorphic quality to the appearance, though I'm not comfortable with analyzing it much further than that, since the photos are so different. The first photo is from 2015, which was one year before I began mewing, and the second one from last week. Current age is 27.
You look like a different person. The biggest differences that jump out immediately are that your eyes have become more hooded, your face is broader, and the shape of your lips has gone from a U shape to a straight line. What do you think has caused the lips to change shape?
You are much better looking now. You weren’t bad looking before, but now you are much more masculine, rugged and symmetrical.
I came across some of my old photos recently while I was moving my files from one HDD to another. I had never before compared my frontal pics, so it was surprising to see how much more robust my face has become - which I think is to be expected when almost a centimeter of increase in IMW and several years of aging has taken place. Disregarding aging and the favorable change in lighting, I can assure that I no longer have those bags under the eyes. In fact, the area below my eyes is now smooth and nearly indistinguishable in its tone from the skin around it. There is also a vaguely increased dimorphic quality to the appearance, though I'm not comfortable with analyzing it much further than that, since the photos are so different. The first photo is from 2015, which was one year before I began mewing, and the second one from last week. Current age is 27.
In the first photo you seem yo have the right side of your face (left looking at photo) more developed. (Not sure maybe its just the angle ir the photo). How did you address this issue? Did you focus on one side specifically? Did your tongue fit evenly?
I seem to have a similar case but I am worried that pushing on my weak side will deviate my mandible even further to that side. (Refering to your before photo pushing on your left/ weak side, could shift your mandible from the right even further to the left?)
The problem is that i cannot fit my tongue evenly so i have to somehow unevenly mew folding my tongue into one side.
I think i have a narrower and higher palate on the weak side but if i expand my teeth mainly on that side my mandible will have to further shift in order yo maintain the bite, right?
Well done amazing work. Your cheekbones be looking more like our robust ancestors now. How are the people around you acting now and are the ladies impressed?
@lizzybennet The change in lip shape I would attribute to lessened alveolar protrusion due to lip seal. In my personal thread you can see in some of the profile comparisons how the lips have moved inward.
@authority I'm still a bit unsure exactly how asymmetry should be interpreted. I have been alternating between posturing my tongue evenly and favoring either side, in order to make sure that the existing structural asymmetry won't cause me to relapse into asymmetric muscle usage. My overall facial asymmetry is still about the same it was when I began, only less visible due to expansion.
@harrykanemaxilla Last time I visited my mother she commented on how prominent my cheekbones had become. I'm a hermit-in-progress at the moment so it's hard to gauge how people experience my presence.
@Progress Great results. You didn't look bad before, either. Would you attribute most of it to using an expander? [if you did] If so, it seems like common sense to see any orthodontist around and have them oversee expansion but it's still hard to put faith in anyone whose website mentions cervical headgear and extractions.
Progress looks great, but im trying to analyse his face with difficulty
why do his cheekbones stick out sideways, but Brad Pitt and many good looking people dont have this? is this phenotype? would progress' cheekbones appear less sharp if he got even more upswing? or does his head just need to get wider?
again, he looks great. just a discussion on optimization
Progress looks great, but im trying to analyse his face with difficulty
why do his cheekbones stick out sideways, but Brad Pitt and many good looking people dont have this? is this phenotype? would progress' cheekbones appear less sharp if he got even more upswing? or does his head just need to get wider?
again, he looks great. just a discussion on optimization
It's probably a matter of phenotype. Western European phenotypes seem to have not-so laterally protruding cheekbones compared to Eastern European, Russian and Near-Asian phenotypes. I have a predominantly Finnish ancestry, with trace amounts of Swedish and Belgian blood mixed in.
What’s your palette looking like now after the 1cm of expansion? Have you got your wisdom teeth yet?
Here is a photo of my 33IMW palette:
No wisdom teeth. Last time I went to a dentist he didn't even mention them, so either I wasn't born with them or they are unerupted and unimpacted. The change doesn't seem that impressive when looking at the palate in isolation. The expansion is slightly more apparent in the occlusal comparison I have posted in my personal thread.
I can definitely see changes at the back of the pallete. Less so at the front. Hopefully I can get my IMW to 43 in 2 years. I will let the forum know if I do (10th December 2021). My current mewing tactic is to suction and push the tongue against the sides of my narrow palette I notice I am mainly touching the teeth though with the sides of my tongue and it is uncomfortable.
Looks like the camera is angled more in the after picture (you can see more cheek) which gives the impression that the rotation didn‘t change that much. But I think if you look closely a decent amount of upswing is evident.
Also not sure wheather the tounge was the main catalyst for these changes, being facilitated by better body posture or wheather better body and tongue posture allowed some other part of the system to rotate it all. Obviously his entire head is progressing also so........
I also see the molars are tipped outwards, possibly because the front palate is too narrow？ I wounder how the molars facing outwards like that effect the maxilla. If the molars were facing more inward, would that push the maxilla more outward from the face？, instead of angeling towards the face, creating harsher angles than is necissairy.
edit: the molars look more straight here
Posted : 11/12/2019 5:36 pm
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