Maybe you have just got nto mewing and so are not used keeping the lower third of the tongue at the top, furthermore check if you have a tongue tie.

Mewing with the common instructions won't give you any forward growth. Hollow cheeks = narrow palate, good forward growth and good genes(strong bone growth in zygos).

Mewing(Mike's instruction) = wide palate(especially at the back), no focus on forward growth and zygos don't become wider. IMO patience and soft mewing > hard mewing. John Mew knew his shit much better than Mike did. 

Here's a video of natural baby mewing : https://youtu.be/oLKknLjUtxI

Notice at the end the tongue isn't pushing against the palate, it's sucking from the front all the way to the back. Also babies suck on fingers as well, they don't push on things, they pull on them. At first I thought it doesn't make sense since there's no forward pressure exerted, but now I think almost no one actually needs to shorten their maxilla except in rare cases.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

Mewing(Mike's instruction) = wide palate(especially at the back), no focus on forward growth and zygos don't become wider. IMO patience and soft mewing > hard mewing.

Mike just says tongue on the roof of the mouth. How does this method not get forward growth or cause the zygos to get wider?  Also wouldn't hardmewing have the same vectors as softmewing with just more force? (basically wouldn't soft mewing get the same results as hardmewing just alot slower?) 

so i dont get why you think softmewing is supposedly better

Posted by: @chiefkeefsosa

Posted by: @auxiliarus

Mewing(Mike's instruction) = wide palate(especially at the back), no focus on forward growth and zygos don't become wider. IMO patience and soft mewing > hard mewing.

Mike just says tongue on the roof of the mouth. How does this method not get forward growth or cause the zygos to get wider?  Also wouldn't hardmewing have the same vectors as softmewing with just more force? (basically wouldn't soft mewing get the same results as hardmewing just alot slower?) 

so i dont get why you think softmewing is supposedly better

High forces actually prevent bone from remodelling, look at slightly older threads where the studies were posted, this is why I prefer soft-mewing. Also tensing the tongue too much makes it narrow.

As for mike's method, it's because he emphasizes upwards force, not forward, especially at the back of the palate.

@auxiliarus has there ever been a study of high force for a long period of time? That helmutstrebl guy went hard and got results.

@chiefkeefsosa

https://scihubtw.tw/10.1016/0002-9416(78)90080-5

This studied used 500 g on rhesus monkeys, it references other studies where they use 300-800g of force, and even 2-6 pounds of force which is significantly more.

https://scihubtw.tw/10.1016/0002-9416(71)90097-2

Here's one of the studies that it referenced, unfortunately for the subjects the headgear pulled the maxilla back not forward.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4993819/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5854885/

According to these studies, RPE appliance (tooth-borne) can exert 3-10 pounds of force.

@sinned  Thanks for dropping the studies, Ill read them when I have time.  

Btw how's hard mewing going for you? Do you think you're gonna get changes like Helmut?

@chiefkeefsosa

I got minor improvements in the soft tissue of my chin, but I've honestly given up a few times for a couple days because hard mewing all day is so mentally draining, and it also flares up my TMD because the tongue force of my tongue pushing is pushing it back in the TMJ joint. If helmut was mewing as hard as he claims then that's seriously some god tier dedication because it really tests my sanity mewing that hard all day, and if what he is saying is true he was still probably mewing harder than I was. He said his hyoid started burning and you have to be mewing at near full force for that to happen. I'm opting for a different method where I'll thumbpull until my thumbs get sore and then hardmew with as much force as humanly possible for 1-2 minutes until my thumb/arm is rested enough to thumbpull again. So for example, I allow myself a 5 minute countdown, and within that time period I usually thumbpull for 60 seconds, then mew as hard as possible for 60 seconds and so on until 5 minutes is up and then rest. I don't know if it'll be more effective than just hardmewing all day since the consensus seems that time matters more than force but we'll see. I think I need to accumulate 1-3 hours of full force hard mewing along with thumbpulling and the rest of the day hardmewing with a light-medium force to get good change, that's just my assumption.

Posted by: @chiefkeefsosa

@auxiliarus has there ever been a study of high force for a long period of time? That helmutstrebl guy went hard and got results.

Helmutstrubl is very controversial. He probably roided and frauded. His pictures also have wildly different lighting, angles and camera distance.

@auxiliarus

I’ve just been reading your recent posts on this forum, and you seem to be saying that mewing (as Mike Mew and helmutstrebl instructs, pushing the back of the palate upwards) is totally incorrect. Instead, the front of the palate should be pushed forwards and upwards, and the back of the palate should be sucked down by suction.

I have noticed that since doing mewing, my face has gotten slightly longer, and this seems to explain why! Also what you’re saying seems much more intuitive.

However, if the front of the palate is pushed upwards and forwards, will the mandible be able to move forwards to catch up with it? Maybe the ramus is required to grow beforehand, right? 

Posted by: @fluffycutecat

@auxiliarus

 

I’ve just been reading your recent posts on this forum, and you seem to be saying that mewing (as Mike Mew and helmutstrebl instructs, pushing the back of the palate upwards) is totally incorrect. Instead, the front of the palate should be pushed forwards and upwards, and the back of the palate should be sucked down by suction.

I have noticed that since doing mewing, my face has gotten slightly longer, and this seems to explain why! Also what you’re saying seems much more intuitive.

However, if the front of the palate is pushed upwards and forwards, will the mandible be able to move forwards to catch up with it? Maybe the ramus is required to grow beforehand, right? 

From my experience the mandible just follows the maxilla, there's some remodelling in the mandible. Good progress will take a few years, so there's definitely room for the mandible to change it's shape and size.