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Was excited about DNA, now perhaps a bit terrified after finding this forum!

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(@toomer)
Posts: 277
Topic starter
 

...and I consider that a good thing, as being incredibly informed is always far far better than rushing into something uninformed or under-informed.  Especially when you are speaking of restructuring your skull.

Me:  

  • Had braces at age 12 through 13 - only about 18 months.  They took the 4 pre-molars out prior to giving me braces.  I hear there is debate that that may have contributed to some of my problems now (I'm in my 40's now).
  • Have always felt like my nose is stuffed up.  Always.  For decades.  To the point where I picked at it so much, I gave myself a septal perforation.  When my trainer at the gym told me he runs marathons breathing through his nose most of the way, I thought he was joking with me.  I've been a mouth-breather while sleeping for decades.
  • Had some bed partners in years past note that "you sometimes stop breathing when you sleep" ... but ignored those warning signs for about 2 decades.
  • Had a cardiac issue a year ago, which - thankfully - didn't reveal any direct cardiac issues, but it forced me to finally go test for OSA.  Yep, I have severe sleep apnea.  Untreated AHI of 41 while sleeping on my back.
  • Went on CPAP, AHI is now down to 1-2.  Great, so those low-grade headaches I've always feeling should go away - right?
  • Wrong.  Headaches still there.  So after I'm onboard with CPAP I go to a ENT about nasal stuffiness, etc. and we do a CT scan.  CT shows nothing remarkable at all.
  • So for low-grade constant headaches that feel like sinus pressure, it seems like TMJ/D is the next likely diagnosis after that ... and about 3 years ago, I did start getting a ringing in my ears (I just attributed it to a concert I went to, but maybe that wasn't it).

So I'm off to see a tmj/sleep specialists, who is a certified Vivos provider.  And I expect I will get a whole bunch of images and a report - do I have enough spacing (38-42mm?) between my left and right molars, how much airway do I have, etc.  I was super excited about the possibilities of talking to this doc ... but now, I am a bit scared:

  • All this talk of "is the bone actually growing, or are the teeth being pushed through the bone" ... has me quite concerned.  Sleep apnea had my energy levels sapped for years, and I was probably a bit depressed --- and as a result, my oral hygiene hasn't been the greatest, and I have started to develop some bone loss and a bit of gum recession.  If my jawbone is not 100% ... I am concerned about any of these procedures.  (I'm also scheduled to have an appointment with a local perio seems to be able to accomplish some bone regeneration, using Emdogain).
  • There was one post claiming DNA's popular images we faked - oh, they tilted their head a certain way, etc.  But if you look past slightly different camera angles, there absolutely do seem to be improvements.  And it seems like some of the 3D bone scan comparisons demonstrated new bone growth.  Do we think that Vivos faked clinical results with the FDA?  Because that would be a big statement to make ...
  • Though another forum I heard about DOME, and through this forum I learned about MSE ... but ... holy cow, if you look at some images - what is up with the giant gaping hole between the two front incisors in some of these treatments?  DOME has a similar 1-month image, where I swear there's a 1cm gap between the upper incisors.  Is this the case with all appliances?  Does that happen with DNA as well?  I mean, I certainly expected there would be some additional spacing between all my teeth when it was all said and done ... but I was not expecting this.  I'm a public speaker for a living, so seeing something like that just makes me start to think I should just do MMA surgery, have my jaw wired shut for 2 weeks, and be done with it.

    Do all maxillary expansion protocols end up introducing that huge gap?  I'd have to imagine that would introduce phonation/pronunciation issues as well, another problem given that I earn my keep speaking in public.

Thanks so much for everything you have built here, it's amazing to read, and I am going to devour as much information as I can over the next week before my appointment.  


 
Posted : 09/01/2020 6:35 pm
(@sinned)
Posts: 410
 

Concerning your fears, there's really nothing to be worried about. As long as you don't tip the teeth or shift them more than 1/16 mm per day it'll be fine. Preferably you shouldn't try self-treatment and should be supervised/treated by a qualified orthodontist. Also, regarding the gaps (diastema), it only occurs with rapid expansion from a suture split.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtzHjF6qP8Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJFEWWhFNYY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNi-1xEttrI&t=

Here's videos explaining the safe rate of expansion, tl; dw: the periodontal membrane is 1/16 mm thick and that much is remodeled every day, so you can shift a tooth at a maximum of 1/16 mm a day, if you shift a tooth beyond that you risk damage to ligament and tooth root.


 
Posted : 09/01/2020 11:59 pm
(@toomer)
Posts: 277
Topic starter
 

That's great info to know, thank you so much!  I know that the DNA protocol has screw adjustments of 0.25mm that the patient is supposed to implement every 4 days.  But if there were any patient-specific concerns they could perhaps execute it a little slower I suppose, by stretching the adjustments out to every 5-6 days.

Reason I end up pondering these things - is that I have had a bit of bone loss on my lower jaw due to poor oral hygiene.  Nothing that my dentist has referred me to a perio for, but something that I contemplate as I look at this process.  Although, given that the only force with the DNA appliance is applied to the upper structures, I'm hoping that won't be an issue.

I had absolutely no intention of trying self-treatment (do people actually do such a thing??!?!?) - I'm meeting with a Vivos-certified TMJ/sleep specialist next week.

Thanks so much!


 
Posted : 10/01/2020 9:59 am
(@sinned)
Posts: 410
 

@toomer

You should also be aware there could be a difference between turning a small amount every single day vs. a relatively large amount over several days. To me, it seems preferable to turn everyday 1/8mm which is a half turn I'm pretty sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zko-FpWLTkk

Like this.


 
Posted : 10/01/2020 2:18 pm
(@toomer)
Posts: 277
Topic starter
 

Thanks!  While I'm only just getting up to speed on the DNA approach, it seems like there's a consistent set of instructions for a single 0.25mm adjustment every 4 days (keeping track of the number of in vs. out hours) but it will definitely be one of the questions I'll ask the specialist next week.  I'll report back if there is anything interesting there.

 


 
Posted : 10/01/2020 5:13 pm

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