Appliances and devices in my opinion should be a last resort, if you are truly in need of such intervention. His starting point wasn't horrible iirc. I've seen much worse cases progress better with no appliances and just mewing. I don't know why he didn't just mew like the rest of us.

@azrael

Yeah in terms of forward growth/eye support AGGA isn't even close to what helmut and Jamo achieved, AGGA results are lackluster tbh, there's no actual forward growth, only the front teeth are coming forward, the rest of the maxilla/palate is left behind. That's supposed to be fixed with controlled arch braces but why go through all that trouble in the first place, the pushing forward of the front teeth + controlled arch braces puts a lot of strain on the front teeth, the whole concept of AGGA is severely flawed. If you want an appliance for forward growth get a facemask of some sort, or just mew which I think is superior compared to everything else.

Didn't somebody say he just began using the Crane? It seems like he's choosing the worst possible treatments; just because they're the most "radical" doesn't make them effective.

Posted by: @sinned

@azrael

Yeah in terms of forward growth/eye support AGGA isn't even close to what helmut and Jamo achieved, AGGA results are lackluster tbh, there's no actual forward growth, only the front teeth are coming forward, the rest of the maxilla/palate is left behind. That's supposed to be fixed with controlled arch braces but why go through all that trouble in the first place, the pushing forward of the front teeth + controlled arch braces puts a lot of strain on the front teeth, the whole concept of AGGA is severely flawed. If you want an appliance for forward growth get a facemask of some sort, or just mew which I think is superior compared to everything else.

Yeah, I recall him saying in a video "you NEED to split the suture" and something along the lines of "maybe mewing alone is enough to do that" but he didn't seem to really believe it, which is probably why he later went on with the MSE.

His quick jump from AGGA to MSE too probably must have contributed in deteriorating his situation despite the latter giving him some positive results.

Well, as several members of this forum can tell, it is indeed possible to split the suture with just plain mewing, though at a slower rate than an appliance such as an MSE.

Still, good of him to document his good and bad aspects of his journey for the people who are likewise quick to jump into the "surgery/appliance" path without considering all the available options.

Posted by: @paperbag

Didn't somebody say he just began using the Crane? It seems like he's choosing the worst possible treatments; just because they're the most "radical" doesn't make them effective.

Is he done with the MSE?

@ronaldead

This is really sad to see and it's not surprising a lot of people in the comment section of his video are suggesting home remedies. I seem to recall his blog, migraine hacks, where he got the palate expander and his teeth appeared to be in bad shape from that. Maybe AGGA was simply the final straw?

I noticed Ronald commenting on his video that he will get some kind of bone graft procedure this month, but don't those sometimes come with an infection risk? And then if that fails, and the teeth end up dead or whatever, then needing to get implants... those come with a 30% failure rate and are linked to causing autoimmune disease. They are also very expensive.

But if patient and persistent, home remedies can make a surprising difference. In case this helps, see my PEMF thread where I used DMSO, aloe and PEMF device instead of getting a bone graft after an extraction. My dentist said I might not be able to get an implant without one, and my adjacent teeth could tip inwards, but that didn't happen and turns out an implant would work (in his opinion).

Guys, I mean just look at his teeth, those are some of the most messed up teeth I have ever seen in my life, is it really that surprising that he got issues with his teeth from AGGA? His roots look very weak and narrow, his teeth are almost transparent and they look rotten.

@auxiliarus haha oh man, look you guys know i'm not afraid to rag on myself, if i thought my teeth were rotten i'd say so. yeah the fronts got raped by (mostly) AGGA and the roots are weak and narrow, and yes the tips of the teeth have become more transparent, which i think is because they aren't making much contact with fresh saliva due to the Invisalign trays (does saliva help remineralize teeth? i think so). transparency may also have to do with loss of vitality from root damage, i'm not entirely sure.

however the stains that appear to be rot are actually just, well, stains. i always get that browning between cleanings due to consuming black coffee and a sizable portion of 85% dark chocolate on a daily basis, combined with not using whitening toothpaste. it's especially bad at the moment because i am overdue for a cleaning (was supposed to be in March, but covid...). actually, though, it's been years since i've had a cavity.

@ronaldead

Hey Ronald, nice of you to pop in. Always wanted to ask you this: why did you consider going for something like AGGA (and then MSE) instead of just mewing? I mean you looked average and didn't look severely recessed or deformed? Were you scared of not achieving any progress because of your age during the time (27-28, I assume?)?