I think I recognize you from such forums? Welcome.

This makes a tremendous amount of sense but unfortunately there is a rather negative connotation in regards to holding your food with your hands or fork and ripping it into smaller pieces in-front of you lol

I wonder if this can be simulated with gum or a strip of hard rubber?

Yeah in a restaurant you eat like a human, at home when possible eat like a feral child.

Beef jerky and raw carrots put good tearing forces on your face. Both socially acceptable to eat like a hunter gatherer.

In many ways belt face pulling simulates this. This is just more of a natural and tried and tested way. Belt face pulling is an act of a desperate person.

what makes you say that. some people here have gotten substantial results from it

Well i have been mewing for over 4 years, read many face pulling threads and yet have never tried it. If i was really recessed i may. Hence the desperation part.

i guess those native Americans we see in old pictures with huge cheekbones and crazy levels of forward growth would make leather clothing with their teeth and is the exact same principle. I still think it is a lot of force on the unknown. Eating steak, beef jerky and raw carrots with your hands is more gradual and safe way.

I will probably try belt face pulling in the near future though, just to feel where the forces are.

Posted by: Jawanomics

[Tube] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJsMNIdd_z8 [/tube]

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJsMNIdd_z8

 

May have been posted before(you have researched the lookism and SH archives fairly thoroughly). But what i do now when eating tough food, I just dont grab a knife and only eat with a fork to get the tearing forces on my face.

a lookism person here, will not you recommend us the rope going? lmao

Great, my daughter won't use her fork anyway. Now I will also not use a fork and maybe pop a Mew cheesy grin swallow now and then for special effect

One day I hope to be able to scold my children for practicing proper dining etiquette at the dinner table.

Put down your cutlery! I raised you better than that

Posted by: Jawanomics

Well i have been mewing for over 4 years, read many face pulling threads and yet have never tried it. If i was really recessed i may. Hence the desperation part.

 

i guess those native Americans we see in old pictures with huge cheekbones and crazy levels of forward growth would make leather clothing with their teeth and is the exact same principle. I still think it is a lot of force on the unknown. Eating steak, beef jerky and raw carrots with your hands is more gradual and safe way.

 

I will probably try belt face pulling in the near future though, just to feel where the forces are.

Considering you have been mewing for 4 years, would you be able to give us a description of your experience, progress or lack thereof? would be greatly appreciated, even perhaps making a case discussion. And i have seen you from those forums haha

My advice would be by a large myobrace, at least your tongue will be in the correct position and the forces are more.

Overall advice would be to grow a beard and forget this stress.

Chew for a while to get initial muscular gains, after that just get a hard food diet. Saw a blog posted on this forum and his masseters are awful.

So i have been experimenting with moving my lower teeth/jaw forward to meet my upper teeth. Is this stupid and will i regret it?

Positives...chin length will be longer, lower jaw will be more forward.

Negatives..may make my maxilla look more recessed relatively, may just look weird as the norm now is a slight overbite.

Funnily enough i think my dad's teeth have a teeth joining bite and he has a great jaw.

So if every 'normal' person has an overbite, to have an ideal lower jaw it means you need a maxilla that is too protruding over the ideal. Which i think what happens with good looking people.

so ideal maxilla = slightly recessed lower jaw

over protruded maxilla = perfect lower jaw

but and this is the but...in men you can have ideal maxilla, slightly recessed lower jaw, but large chin that offsets that and that will make you pretty much ideal.

Posted by: Jawanomics

So if every 'normal' person has an overbite, to have an ideal lower jaw it means you need a maxilla that is too protruding over the ideal. Which i think what happens with good looking people.

 

so ideal maxilla = slightly recessed lower jaw

over protruded maxilla = perfect lower jaw

 

but and this is the but...in men you can have ideal maxilla, slightly recessed lower jaw, but large chin that offsets that and that will make you pretty much ideal.

Men need lower third height and that's it. Chin size = irrelevant

I'm on the Carnivore diet , so I get to chew a lot of the time, it's so good for mewing, I also get to practice my swallowing and chewing skills.

Have seen the same thing on Wikipedia about over bites really interesting

@rad

My theory is that it's not just due to the lack of knives and forks but also dental wear, it's impossible to not have your teeth meet comfortably unless it's in an overbite if you still have your cusps. If you wear down the cusps and in addition eat without a fork and knife in order to get the best "cutting" power your lower jaw comes forward to meet the front teeth in an edge to edge bite.

No need to bite edge to edge. Cromagnon man had an overbite and still great jaw projection. All eating edge to edge will do is weaken your lower third height since the teeth will get worn and smaller

@eddiemoney

It depends on whether or not the cusps have been worn down. In skulls where the teeth are flat from being worn down, they have an edge to edge bite, if you have cusps  your teeth will fit naturally in an overbite.

An overbite itself doesn't tell you anything about maxilla development. Long faced and short faced people can both have this. 

I have never seen anyone lose facial aesthetics just from having an overbite. 

The solution is to eat a lot of pizza then. 😎 

@eddiemoney

I agree that an overbite makes little difference in facial appearance. The oclussion of the teeth change if  they are flat versus if they have little wear. The difference in the jaws and facial appearance is not that affected though, only a slight difference in occlusion.

Posted by: @sinned

@eddiemoney

I agree that an overbite makes little difference in facial appearance. The oclussion of the teeth change if  they are flat versus if they have little wear. The difference in the jaws and facial appearance is not that affected though, only a slight difference in occlusion.

 

I did not say that it doesn't affect appearance. I said it doesn't make one bad looking. Heck all Hollywood actors have overbites. 

Occlusion does affect appearance however. People with underbites do look different than those with overbites. And teeth wear does lower facial height. Kurt Kobain had a square jaw but a very short face for a male. I surmise that it may be due to tooth wear. Notice the flatness of his upper teeth. I think a good sign of wear from bis bruxism. Obviously good jaw development and vertical height but if you shave his beard he looks a bit feminine (sort of like a handsome female). 

https://giphy.com/gifs/nirvana-smile-kurt-cobain-HwhJkKvHHwaZ2

Also want to point out that he had an overbite despite his flat teeth. Since the mandible can move forward and back on its condyle, that will also affect occlusion. Kurt had such a vertically short and wide maxilla that even with what looks to be some tooth flatness he still had a pronounced overbite and very strong chin.

The above statement shows that an overbite doesn't affect the face negatively if the maxillary height is shortened. It is only when someone has long faced syndrome that an overbite becomes a problem, such as bimaxillary protrusion. Then their chin does become weak. But that only happens when the maxilla is too long in vertical height.

The overbite isn't the problem. Which is what old school orthodontists think the issue is. So they pull teeth. And in these cases the occlusal plane and tooth angulation (degree of prognathism) are exactly the same as someone with a short face but because the maxilla grew down and back, the mandible is pushed back against its condyle. And this in turn weakens the chin as lips are made incompetent due to the fact their muscle force becomes limited due to bone being further away.

I reference my long vs short faces thread. Vertical height may not make one extra good looking all the time, but the reasons why Mew lines are relevant is because the jaw does project more even in the presence of an overbite if the Mew line is low. So the whole "overbites make weak chin" arguments addresses a symptom, not a cause which is weak muscle recruitment of the facial muscles and of course this includes oral posture. 

But I know @Jawanomics knows this. He even said an overly projected maxilla (aka one that would lead to an overbite) is what would allow the chin to be strong and the whole jaw to project. 

@eddiemoney

I was thinking about this.

In this case the overbite on the right is natural, good occlusion, but the occlusion on the left is also good. The occlusion difference is a few mm so the difference is minimal and not noticeable. Of course if you have a class 2 or class 3 the difference is much more noticeable and changes facial appearance. I guess I was wrong about the occlusion of flat teeth vs teeth with little wear, it seems there's more variables I didn't consider. An interesting thing I notice when I incise with the front teeth is that my mandible comes a little forward as to cut the food in the most efficient way possible. Animals who solely incise and cut food have edge to edge bites, so it seems an edge to edge bite is more efficient at incising food, perhaps this is why Kurt has an overbite while prehistoric humans with worn teeth had an edge to edge bite, they used the front teeth heavily unlike we do now.

@eddiemoney

I think what i said for your typical good looking modern male is ...maxilla being in the correct position, then everyone has an over-bite so lower jaw is slightly recessed, but a large chin or stubble offsets that.

Posted by: @jawanomics

@eddiemoney

I think what i said for your typical good looking modern male is ...maxilla being in the correct position, then everyone has an over-bite so lower jaw is slightly recessed, but a large chin or stubble offsets that.

But the point was that a low Mew line makes ot easier for the chin to project despite its size. Many times people with weak chins have a normal sized pogonion, but their lip, mentalis, and mandible position cause it to be weak.