Last 3 weeks I was really going ham at mewing. I was focusing on it 24/7. Perfected my tongue posture and my breathing. But I dont think my face will change. Its sad because I was really good looking as a child but the allergie hit me hard at 10-11 years old and I developed weak chin and a hump nose. I dont think as a fresh 20 year old man will able to change my face. Im only now in for health benefits. I hope Im wrong but I just cant find good evidence in adults. Im just really sad the last couple of days. I really love this forum and the people here. Keep mewing brothers
Last 3 weeks I was really going ham at mewing. I was focusing on it 24/7. Perfected my tongue posture and my breathing. But I dont think my face will change. Its sad because I was really good looking as a child but the allergie hit me hard at 10-11 years old and I developed weak chin and a hump nose. I dont think as a fresh 20 year old man will able to change my face. Im only now in for health benefits. I hope Im wrong but I just cant find good evidence in adults. Im just really sad the last couple of days. I really love this forum and the people here. Keep mewing brothers
you're just this sad and rushed, bro, do not pass this on to others
A lei do esforço nunca falha
Last 3 weeks I was really going ham at mewing. I was focusing on it 24/7. Perfected my tongue posture and my breathing. But I dont think my face will change. Its sad because I was really good looking as a child but the allergie hit me hard at 10-11 years old and I developed weak chin and a hump nose. I dont think as a fresh 20 year old man will able to change my face. Im only now in for health benefits. I hope Im wrong but I just cant find good evidence in adults. Im just really sad the last couple of days. I really love this forum and the people here. Keep mewing brothers
you're just this sad and rushed, bro, do not pass this on to others
Do you think that at age 20 I will be able to change? Also what are your experiences?
I'm eighteen myself and started about two months ago, since this time there has been an evident change in my facial structure, especially my cheekbones, and I feel confident in the way I look for the first time in my life because of what these techniques have done for me. Even my chin is getting better, though, I would still consider it to be below average. These things simply take time, if you aren't already, I would start chin tucking and practicing correct posture, one of the first mistakes I made myself was slouching extra hard to give the appearance that my chin wasn't recessed, which obviously, didn't help my case.
Just give it some time, make sure you're doing everything correctly. Try not to worry about it so much and try to look at it as a work-in-progress that will eventually give you favorable results.
Your face won’t change. You have the wrong attitude. If I were you I would give up and stop wasting your time.
Lol
3 weeks in and already feeling defeated
I am 32 and have seen great cheekbone gains and slight chin prominence. So far 8 months for me.
My face has definitely changed for the better. Wider masseters have offset my cheekbone growth so I do not look moonfaced either . My eyes are slightly deeper set as well
Haha dude, do you think body builders give up after 3 weeks?
sigh, this generation. Step up your game bro. Don’t be a quitter!
I am much older than you, and my chin moved forward 2 mm with die hard mewing and intense thump pushing, 30 min Jawzrise daily, and taking Ibutamoren for increased IGF-1 levels for bone growth. I also sleep without a pillow to improve my head posture, same as chin tucking, but then for 8 hours straight.
i also calculated all if my daily minerals, multivitamin does not gave enough minerals. Without enough minerals, your body does not grow bone. Calculate that shit till the mg hehe. This ain’t no joke if you want results.
my game is pro man, my results are pro, 2 mm is fucking much in one month. Just mewing will not get you there in 3 weeks
don’t be a pussy ass quitter, you got this. Some it takes years. Eat healthy, do exercise, sleep right and get your game on biches <3
Lol
3 weeks in and already feeling defeated
I am 32 and have seen great cheekbone gains and slight chin prominence. So far 8 months for me.
My face has definitely changed for the better. Wider masseters have offset my cheekbone growth so I do not look moonfaced either . My eyes are slightly deeper set as well
What is your routine (ie any facepulling or NCR, chewing etc) ?
Haha dude, do you think body builders give up after 3 weeks?
sigh, this generation. Step up your game bro. Don’t be a quitter!
I am much older than you, and my chin moved forward 2 mm with die hard mewing and intense thump pushing, 30 min Jawzrise daily, and taking Ibutamoren for increased IGF-1 levels for bone growth. I also sleep without a pillow to improve my head posture, same as chin tucking, but then for 8 hours straight.
i also calculated all if my daily minerals, multivitamin does not gave enough minerals. Without enough minerals, your body does not grow bone. Calculate that shit till the mg hehe. This ain’t no joke if you want results.
my game is pro man, my results are pro, 2 mm is fucking much in one month. Just mewing will not get you there in 3 weeks
don’t be a pussy ass quitter, you got this. Some it takes years. Eat healthy, do exercise, sleep right and get your game on biches <3
Without a pillow...wait, that really improves head posture? I actually love the feeling but I recall when I switched over to a soft, very thin pillow, my neck started hurting like a b....ee. I'll look into it. Have real bad chicken-head syndrome over here.
Anyways OP...chill. You're 20. Do more research; amass more techniques. I've heard some interesting stories of people incorporating other things (like open mouth chewing of all things) and seeing results and stuff like that...which I'd try but tbh not sure if the supposed improved zygoma would be enough to set off the lower jaw growth (which I realllly don't need anymore of).
Of course it's all very dubious but like with anything that matters, it takes work. Plus again 20. Young. You could see some great progress more than a year down the line.
@Gabriel A lot of us are dealing with unmet needs, past and/or present, and fixing our faces, which is highly charged emotional territory. Abuse, parental, professional etc, lies behind the CFD of some of us. To feel sad or whatever about it sometimes is fine. And I get that physical and mental derangement can go hand in hand, so forums like this are going to have "toxic" people. But this just sucks. You're entitled and I want to avoid you and others like you, but I like this forum too and I really do not want this behaviour you exhibit sometimes to become a norm. Spread like a cancer. And I'm taking a stand! Now just imagine me in a karate pose, meaning business. Just... just think about that next time you feel the need to do stuff like this. Yeah.
eta: forgot to mention what I'm lampooning, how testimony without picture evidence gets deemed as lacking value.
Last 3 weeks I was really going ham at mewing. I was focusing on it 24/7. Perfected my tongue posture and my breathing. But I dont think my face will change. Its sad because I was really good looking as a child but the allergie hit me hard at 10-11 years old and I developed weak chin and a hump nose. I dont think as a fresh 20 year old man will able to change my face. Im only now in for health benefits. I hope Im wrong but I just cant find good evidence in adults. Im just really sad the last couple of days. I really love this forum and the people here. Keep mewing brothers
I sincerely doubt your tongue posture and breathing is perfected, perhaps maybe it's much better for your current level of dysfunction. Clear facial change can take a while coming from a place of dysfunction: for me it took 3 years, but I'm older so if you're dedicated, it's entirely possible you'll get faster results given your age. Health benefits came first for me, like improved airway, which I believe set the stage for the posture and facial aesthetic changes to occur.
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
Bruh you don't even have a weak chin. This is a weak chin
no offense @eddiemoney but you clearly are not knowledgeable on the subject of chinlets. THESE are weak chins
as far as I'm concerned, if you don't look like a guitar pick side-on then you have no right to complain about a lack of chin
Last 3 weeks I was really going ham at mewing. I was focusing on it 24/7. Perfected my tongue posture and my breathing. But I dont think my face will change. Its sad because I was really good looking as a child but the allergie hit me hard at 10-11 years old and I developed weak chin and a hump nose. I dont think as a fresh 20 year old man will able to change my face. Im only now in for health benefits. I hope Im wrong but I just cant find good evidence in adults. Im just really sad the last couple of days. I really love this forum and the people here. Keep mewing brothers
Idk, I'm almost 3 weeks in and it looks like I manage to hold it during the night subconsciously, breathing through the nose all through the night, so thats 7-8 hours a day at least and I manage during most of the day as well, at least another 12 hours. So far results are that the 2 back molars which were in the way straightened themselves enough to not feel them anymore. This means my tongue is flat against the roof of the mouth now. My lower fat lip has healed and is getting smaller? I chew mastic gum (toughest gum on the planet) with an open mouth, can already feel the gains in my chewing muscles and a slight realignment of the jaws due to this. The gum is so tough my face aches 10 minutes in. The pump after 1 to 2 hours of this is surreal. My snoring is gone and I don't wake up fatigued in the morning. With all these benefits almost 3 weeks in I don't understand why one would give up, especially considering other people with just tongue posture managed amazing gains especially in jaw positioning within just a year. e_e just man up and do it for the rest of your life imo or continue being a chinlet.
Other things to consider:
1. Weekly 24 to 32 hour fast spikes your human growth hormone by 2000%. This is probably useful since you are moving bone and growing muscle. You make HGH gainz during sleep as well so SLEEP 7-8 hours a day.
2. Practice the Mona Lisa swallow when you eat and eat MEAT, FAT and RAW VEGETABLES, avoid sugar & carbs as much as possibru. Think steak with veggies, avoid chiken, it grows in 3 months now in a factory and does not contain much other than protein.
3. Get enough sunshine for vitamin D
4. Calcium and Zinc supplements.
5. Correct neck and back posture, get into lifting or calisthenics, fuck cardio, only do cardio if you are fat. You can't be fat if you are eating meat, fat, vegetables, sleeping properly, lifting and fasting weekly 24 hours.
yeah sleeping without a pillow can really help. When muscles are not used, they get shorter. When your head is in a chicken pose all day, the muscles get stretched. The muscles, when shortened, can really help make your face shorter. Plus less neck pain.
first night I slept like shit.
If you sleep with a big mother fucking pillow, and live like a chicken during the day, I would recommend laying on your back on your bed, with your head sticking out. Then slowly move your head backwards, and slowly move your head left and right. Really let your muscles get used to being in another position.
Do that for a week daily for a few minutes. Maybe 2 weeks, depends on how it feels. Then start sleeping without a pillow. You will wake up the first night after a few hours, that’s ok, continue sleeping with a lower pillow (than usual) for the rest of the night. After a few nights, your body is used to it.
And you have less neck pain, your posture will improve, and you shorten those facial muscles for extra face shortening effects :)
your welcome
@Gabriel A lot of us are dealing with unmet needs, past and/or present, and fixing our faces, which is highly charged emotional territory. Abuse, parental, professional etc, lies behind the CFD of some of us. To feel sad or whatever about it sometimes is fine. And I get that physical and mental derangement can go hand in hand, so forums like this are going to have "toxic" people. But this just sucks. You're entitled and I want to avoid you and others like you, but I like this forum too and I really do not want this behaviour you exhibit sometimes to become a norm. Spread like a cancer. And I'm taking a stand! Now just imagine me in a karate pose, meaning business. Just... just think about that next time you feel the need to do stuff like this. Yeah.
eta: forgot to mention what I'm lampooning, how testimony without picture evidence gets deemed as lacking value.
Last 3 weeks I was really going ham at mewing. I was focusing on it 24/7. Perfected my tongue posture and my breathing. But I dont think my face will change. Its sad because I was really good looking as a child but the allergie hit me hard at 10-11 years old and I developed weak chin and a hump nose. I dont think as a fresh 20 year old man will able to change my face. Im only now in for health benefits. I hope Im wrong but I just cant find good evidence in adults. Im just really sad the last couple of days. I really love this forum and the people here. Keep mewing brothers
I sincerely doubt your tongue posture and breathing is perfected, perhaps maybe it's much better for your current level of dysfunction. Clear facial change can take a while coming from a place of dysfunction: for me it took 3 years, but I'm older so if you're dedicated, it's entirely possible you'll get faster results given your age. Health benefits came first for me, like improved airway, which I believe set the stage for the posture and facial aesthetic changes to occur.
How old you were when you started mewing and how did your face changer over the years?
I don't want to be that guy, but I've been working at this since December of 2015 and my results have been about nil. Gum chewing never felt like it did anything no matter what kind I chewed, and I repeatedly get it stuck in my throat when I chew it. (I've posted about it before) I spent hundreds of dollars on a Gokhale chair and sit in it for hours a day, trying to hold a chin tuck, that hasn't done anything for my face. Oral posture seems impossible for me to hold, not sure if it's due to not enough forward room for my tongue or I have too high of a palate or what, but I make sure to hold it as best as I can all day long. Coming up on 2 months of daily face pulling, 12-15 times a day with no results and sensations have faded long ago. Wasted money on supplements, a handheld ultrasound (?) machine to try loosening sutures, and a few other things. Practicing various swallowing/chewing techniques hasn't seemed to do anything (for my appearance, anyway) after all of this time either. I also did a ton of physical exercise, thinking that a more 'alive' body would make my skull more able to change.
For all of the time, money, and effort, I have nothing to show for it, and not for a lack of trying or not being positive enough or whatever the default insult might be. I'm only 24 now, so being too old can't be the reason nothing's happening. Somebody mentioned Rolfing to me recently, I'm looking into it in case it will help. 3 weeks is a laughable amount of time to be skeptical, but I feel like I've earned the right to whine, since being ignorant about all of this stuff would have yielded me the same progress as obsessing for years and getting nowhere. My profile when I chin tuck is a bit like the middle photo @EddieMoney posted, it's ugly as hell and I'm sick of pursuing a solution for years only to get nowhere and not even know why it's not working. If that's "toxic", whatever. I've posted on all of these forums since claimingpower was still active and rarely complain like this, so it was overdue.
So you started at 21? Are you alergic to something or why did you mouth breathe so much? Im working at a summer job and here one dude has even worse face and profile like you and he has kids and wife so I guess not everything os beauty even tho its a huge part of life. I think only surgery can help you.
@Gabriel I started shortly after turning 22. No, I'm not allergic to anything and the answer isn't really as simple as just mouthbreathing. I didn't breathe through my mouth all the time, I remember my bite being really bad (a severe overjet) and I didn't always seal my lips together because my front teeth were jutting out. It was apparently bad enough to warrant jaw surgery, but I was too scared of that and opted for the second choice of pushing everything backwards, offered by the same doctor who wanted surgery, which makes little sense.
For the most part I think I breathed through my nose, but I think my tongue always hovered in the middle of my mouth, some of it being on the palate and some just floating. My intermolar width is like 40-42mm, not counting teeth, so it's not like everything is awful. My face was already bad at that point, but I wrecked my posture in high school by carrying a heavy backpack every day, which led to me hunching over. That was during ortho treatment, which was already forcing my jaws further backwards, so I also had to crane my head forward to breathe in addition to the bad posture, leading to over a year of constant asthma/panic attacks because my body was so off kilter I had to manually breathe. Post-ortho treatment, I had clear retainers, which opened my bite up again, so I "wisely" asked for a wired retainer and thus ruined my profile even more by pushing my maxilla back again.
To reiterate, I said my profile is like the guy in that photo when I tuck my chin, but even comparing that guy craning his head to a chin tuck photo of myself, I was exaggerating a bit. He's worse off than me, but my profile is very slanted and angular, it's quite similar in that way. I don't have as much of the tired look that the 3 guys in the photo have, but it looks like someone held a candle to my jaw from the side. My profile is weak and makes me look weak, like a mouse, that's how I can summarize it. I don't think I have the #1 worst case of CFD on this forum - if "only surgery can help me", then that applies to more people than just me, but if many other posters have narrower palates than mine and can still hold the oral posture, and don't have issues breathing, talking, or eating food, and can get results within months, then I think there must be something quite wrong with me. I just found a photo from 2015 where I'm craning my head and it's nowhere near those other guys' profiles, but I still have major dystrophy and it's frustrating as hell that my body seemingly does not want to cooperate no matter what I do. Sorry for the long blog post.
I am empathetic to your frustrations, paper. it is very obvious that you are fully committed to the cause so I don't doubt what you say.
it is possible that you have low osteoclasts/osteoblasts levels or something so you progress is really slow? Maybe something like low T/HGH? have you tried supplementing k2 mk4? (directs calcium into hard tissue which is critical for bone growth or some shit) I'm already seeing results from this product in 2 weeks like very small teeth cavities filling (i.e hard tissue) and very slight jaw widening.
i'm thinking that maybe papers current bone or general health might be restricting his ability for his bones to morph and move
I remember seeing a post here about how after young men had been put through the military their facial bone development changed for the better, likely due to an increase in T and HGH from all the rigorous training they do.
do you do any heavy working out?
the shit @dominik has been talking about makes a lot of sense
@krollic How would I be able to get my osteoclast/blast levels checked? I'm not sure about those, but I had my testosterone checked years ago and was told it was in the high range of normal.
Yeah, I tried heavy K2 supplementation in late 2016. It was 15mg a day for a few months, and like you, to fix cavities. I had several rotting teeth that kept getting worse despite my 24/7 obsession and trying everything; it turned out to be phantom acid reflux that mainly happened while asleep so I never knew about it. As a result, the K2 did nothing and I was aware of its bone remodelling capabilities back then, but saw no changes there either.
I think I saw the military post you're referring to, but I can't recall if I saw any real changes or not, unless we're talking about different posts. No, I don't do heavy working out right now. I did a lot of exercise (for me, anyway) for about 7 months, then quit it all and am just now getting back into doing some biking and walking. I don't call that an exercise program, it's just for the sake of moving more.
I do eat a lot of sugar and have for a few years, which may sound like a no-brainer as to why I'm not progressing, but my overall health was not much better when I ate a lot less of it. I gained over 50 pounds from SSRIs and only got into eating a lot of junk food after I lost all of the weight. Also, I have a twin brother who eats nearly the exact same foods as me and has a normal to decent face, so me being remorseful over not eating enough cow liver or other vitamin enriched foods may be misplaced.
@PaperBag, do you have by any chance, tension in your neck? Many neck muscles are connected to the hyoid bone, and if there is tension there, the tongue won't be able to be free and go up. The tongue shouldn't be tense at all, swallowing is an involuntary process, and tension in the area hinders the process. When the body is balanced, it is easier to let the tongue rest on the maxilla/palate/anterior base of the skull.
Also, do you let your skull balance on your atlas/spine? I'm sorry if that sounds weird, but I believe balance can help a lot... since body is a complex system, and the tongue is not the only thing that helps the head be balanced.
You have to let your body revolve around your skeletal system and spine, which are there for that.
For that I think is important to have good body awareness, knowing your body, its size, structures, functions.. to be able to discern whether you are doing something wrong.
Maybe thats missing in your situation, I dont know.
I am sorry if I am not clear, english is not my mother tongue.
@krollic How would I be able to get my osteoclast/blast levels checked? I'm not sure about those, but I had my testosterone checked years ago and was told it was in the high range of normal.
Yeah, I tried heavy K2 supplementation in late 2016. It was 15mg a day for a few months, and like you, to fix cavities. I had several rotting teeth that kept getting worse despite my 24/7 obsession and trying everything; it turned out to be phantom acid reflux that mainly happened while asleep so I never knew about it. As a result, the K2 did nothing and I was aware of its bone remodelling capabilities back then, but saw no changes there either.
I think I saw the military post you're referring to, but I can't recall if I saw any real changes or not, unless we're talking about different posts. No, I don't do heavy working out right now. I did a lot of exercise (for me, anyway) for about 7 months, then quit it all and am just now getting back into doing some biking and walking. I don't call that an exercise program, it's just for the sake of moving more.
I do eat a lot of sugar and have for a few years, which may sound like a no-brainer as to why I'm not progressing, but my overall health was not much better when I ate a lot less of it. I gained over 50 pounds from SSRIs and only got into eating a lot of junk food after I lost all of the weight. Also, I have a twin brother who eats nearly the exact same foods as me and has a normal to decent face, so me being remorseful over not eating enough cow liver or other vitamin enriched foods may be misplaced.
Sugar won't ruin your process. I eat sugar and grains all the time and my results have been great
@Gabriel I was 30 when I started. Mainly my face got wider and mid face shorter after I finally fixed my posture a year or so ago (that's the key for mid face shortening). I wrote in my notebook simply "1.6" as a fwhr, but I can't remember how I took that measurement, also I calculated it from a picture back then and it was 1.7 (sorry, I'm bad at measurements). Eyes, cheekbones, chin are stronger looking, essentially what you can expect from a good face exercise program. But the maxilla repositioning is the biggest change. Now I'm 36 and it seems my fwhr is 1.9 but I have difficulty with measurements like I said. My dexterity is trashed, I get confused easily, and it's starting to dawn on me that it could be dystonia. I don't have a diagnosis but I've been reading about people's experiences with it lately and it's eerily lining up. Anyway, after my pregnancy, my posture got even worse than it was from a car accident and my chin melted in to my neck like people with sleep apnea can get. The problem there was my hips, mainly. It's mostly better now but it takes a 24/7 effort over all these years. I think I am mostly normal looking now but still need some forward growth according to my mew indicator line score, which I don't know if I took correctly even after reading the detailed thread about it. But it's all much easier now, and I believe my mewing efforts helped to stabilize things for me in a big way.
@paperbag Do you have dystonia too? I hope you can navigate through what you're going through and undo this damage. Anyway one thing that's important for me to know and maybe you too that it's okay to get mad about your needs not getting met. I just started to get mad at my husband because he'd shut down my conversations about skull development as if I'm going to go in to some obsessed rant at any mere mention, so I have tried to do everything on my own and haven't gotten the help I needed with things like taking pictures and measurements. Anyway, I hope you can get sorted out with decompressing your spine. Incidentally I have the same weight gain background except I can't seem to lose the weight, hoping developing the skull may help down the road.
Remember this pain... and let it activate you.
finally a meme on this forum!
Last 3 weeks I was really going ham at mewing. I was focusing on it 24/7. Perfected my tongue posture and my breathing. But I dont think my face will change. Its sad because I was really good looking as a child but the allergie hit me hard at 10-11 years old and I developed weak chin and a hump nose. I dont think as a fresh 20 year old man will able to change my face. Im only now in for health benefits. I hope Im wrong but I just cant find good evidence in adults. Im just really sad the last couple of days. I really love this forum and the people here. Keep mewing brothers
Idk, I'm almost 3 weeks in and it looks like I manage to hold it during the night subconsciously, breathing through the nose all through the night, so thats 7-8 hours a day at least and I manage during most of the day as well, at least another 12 hours. So far results are that the 2 back molars which were in the way straightened themselves enough to not feel them anymore. This means my tongue is flat against the roof of the mouth now. My lower fat lip has healed and is getting smaller? I chew mastic gum (toughest gum on the planet) with an open mouth, can already feel the gains in my chewing muscles and a slight realignment of the jaws due to this. The gum is so tough my face aches 10 minutes in. The pump after 1 to 2 hours of this is surreal. My snoring is gone and I don't wake up fatigued in the morning. With all these benefits almost 3 weeks in I don't understand why one would give up, especially considering other people with just tongue posture managed amazing gains especially in jaw positioning within just a year. e_e just man up and do it for the rest of your life imo or continue being a chinlet.
Other things to consider:
1. Weekly 24 to 32 hour fast spikes your human growth hormone by 2000%. This is probably useful since you are moving bone and growing muscle. You make HGH gainz during sleep as well so SLEEP 7-8 hours a day.
2. Practice the Mona Lisa swallow when you eat and eat MEAT, FAT and RAW VEGETABLES, avoid sugar & carbs as much as possibru. Think steak with veggies, avoid chiken, it grows in 3 months now in a factory and does not contain much other than protein.
3. Get enough sunshine for vitamin D
4. Calcium and Zinc supplements.
5. Correct neck and back posture, get into lifting or calisthenics, fuck cardio, only do cardio if you are fat. You can't be fat if you are eating meat, fat, vegetables, sleeping properly, lifting and fasting weekly 24 hours.
@gabriel actually whats even better is just everyday fasting which i believe would be better for long term CHIn GAINZ i fast everyday for 16 hour (i try to) then i eat 1-3 big meals later in the days its great and it also increases ur hgh by ALOT mix that with high intensity excercise like sprinting youll become a hormone monster
@Gabriel I started shortly after turning 22. No, I'm not allergic to anything and the answer isn't really as simple as just mouthbreathing. I didn't breathe through my mouth all the time, I remember my bite being really bad (a severe overjet) and I didn't always seal my lips together because my front teeth were jutting out. It was apparently bad enough to warrant jaw surgery, but I was too scared of that and opted for the second choice of pushing everything backwards, offered by the same doctor who wanted surgery, which makes little sense.
For the most part I think I breathed through my nose, but I think my tongue always hovered in the middle of my mouth, some of it being on the palate and some just floating. My intermolar width is like 40-42mm, not counting teeth, so it's not like everything is awful. My face was already bad at that point, but I wrecked my posture in high school by carrying a heavy backpack every day, which led to me hunching over. That was during ortho treatment, which was already forcing my jaws further backwards, so I also had to crane my head forward to breathe in addition to the bad posture, leading to over a year of constant asthma/panic attacks because my body was so off kilter I had to manually breathe. Post-ortho treatment, I had clear retainers, which opened my bite up again, so I "wisely" asked for a wired retainer and thus ruined my profile even more by pushing my maxilla back again.
To reiterate, I said my profile is like the guy in that photo when I tuck my chin, but even comparing that guy craning his head to a chin tuck photo of myself, I was exaggerating a bit. He's worse off than me, but my profile is very slanted and angular, it's quite similar in that way. I don't have as much of the tired look that the 3 guys in the photo have, but it looks like someone held a candle to my jaw from the side. My profile is weak and makes me look weak, like a mouse, that's how I can summarize it. I don't think I have the #1 worst case of CFD on this forum - if "only surgery can help me", then that applies to more people than just me, but if many other posters have narrower palates than mine and can still hold the oral posture, and don't have issues breathing, talking, or eating food, and can get results within months, then I think there must be something quite wrong with me. I just found a photo from 2015 where I'm craning my head and it's nowhere near those other guys' profiles, but I still have major dystrophy and it's frustrating as hell that my body seemingly does not want to cooperate no matter what I do. Sorry for the long blog post.
@paperbag Have you checked for a tongue tie? Some thing that i used to when i first started mewing which actually worked really well i should start it again actually. I would cheesy smile as wide as i could in a mirror with a cup of water and r raise my eyebrows as high as possible with my bite closed. Then i would sip some water and swallow as fast and as hard as possible repeatedly until my tongue got so sore i couldn't hold it up any longer and every time i did that i could feel so much more pressure on my pallet
@paperbag eating sugar raises insulin levels really high which really can halt HGH and testosterone production so if you do eat it try to mix that diet with intermittent fasting.
@ayla321 when i mew i try to use alot of tongue force so i feel like i get tension from that but after reading youre post i tried swallowing in a more relaxed manner? but at the same time i tried to get some force it might be placebo but it seemed easier to maintain posture this way.
@Rockyp33, well, I do think there is an upward and forward force/pressure, but I dont know if it is something one should think about the whole time. At least in my case it doesnt work so well (to push with all mighty force for hours), since my tongue becomes either purple or whitish and really dry and then becomes rebellious and wants to stay down (I probably do it wrong).
But it is not totally relaxed either (as in collapsed)..they are just engaged and free. I am still trying to find out the best way to describe it.
Since the palatoglossus muscle is innervated by the vagus nerve, which is involuntary and elevates the posterior portion of the tongue, I think it is something one should encourage/coax/allow, rather than do or force. Just like one doesnt force the movement of the diaphragm.
Thats why I find the suction hold and cheesy smile swallow exercise so good (as long as one does it in a balanced position and one is aware of the rest of the body, in and out). Like Mike says, It corrects function until it gets to subconscious level. I think this muscle, among others, becomes trained and with time it gets easier to just let the tongue rest and be plastered on the anterior base of the skull.
I also have the feeling that a mixture between anti gravity postural reflexes and other involuntary processes like breathing and swallowing, is what allows the tongue, hyoid bone, trachea, diaphragm, etc to go naturally upwards (since one of the tongues job is also supporting the breathing, just like other organs support the respiratory system). But for that to happen, there shouldnt be muscular tension on the torso/neck and the skull should be balanced on the weight bearing part of the spine and either pelvis in sitting, or legs in standing.
@Rockyp33, well, I do think there is an upward and forward force/pressure, but I dont know if it is something one should think about the whole time. At least in my case it doesnt work so well (to push with all mighty force for hours), since my tongue becomes either purple or whitish and really dry and then becomes rebellious and wants to stay down (I probably do it wrong).
But it is not totally relaxed either (as in collapsed)..they are just engaged and free. I am still trying to find out the best way to describe it.
Since the palatoglossus muscle is innervated by the vagus nerve, which is involuntary and elevates the posterior portion of the tongue, I think it is something one should encourage/coax/allow, rather than do or force. Just like one doesnt force the movement of the diaphragm.
Thats why I find the suction hold and cheesy smile swallow exercise so good (as long as one does it in a balanced position and one is aware of the rest of the body, in and out). Like Mike says, It corrects function until it gets to subconscious level. I think this muscle, among others, becomes trained and with time it gets easier to just let the tongue rest and be plastered on the anterior base of the skull.
I also have the feeling that a mixture between anti gravity postural reflexes and other involuntary processes like breathing and swallowing, is what allows the tongue, hyoid bone, trachea, diaphragm, etc to go naturally upwards (since one of the tongues job is also supporting the breathing, just like other organs support the respiratory system). But for that to happen, there shouldnt be muscular tension on the torso/neck and the skull should be balanced on the weight bearing part of the spine and either pelvis in sitting, or legs in standing.
Are you from turkey ayla31
so that palatagdfgdfgsfdg muscle you were talking about what does that do to the vagus nerve cause i know th vagus nerve is important in being relaxed.
@Gabriel: I know for a fact that the tongue can result in major change, even in adults. I am a 30 year old man and I have been mewing (mostly with a constant light force) for 11,5 months now. PM me an email adress and I will send you a few comparisons. The comparisons show very clearly, without doubt, how my zygomatic bones today are protruding more laterally and forwards. More things than this has changed, for example my forehead and my nose. I have measured an increased lateral distance of about 1 cm between the outer points of my zygomatic bones since I started, so I know it 100% to be true myself. Meaning that I am not just applying some kind of placebo effect based on what I see in pictures. I have obviously also very clearly noticed the increased tongue space in my upper palate. It was very narrow when I started, I could barely fit my tongue up there. I forced it up there non stop.
The fact that I started at a very narrow state with lots of opportunity to grow/change is most certainly the reason as for why I changed so much during my first 4 months. Change has kept on since then, but massive expansion in particular took place during that time period.
What I question is whether I have changed in an ideal way or not thus far. As mentioned above I have been mewing with constant light force as opposed to relying on a suction hold where the tongue just rests in the roof of the mouth. Based on how I changed I at times worried that mewing with constant force perhaps was not a great idea. At times I even worried if I actually made things worse. I hope I am on the right track though.
I will also start ALF appliance treatment (or DNA appliance treatment , but most likely ALF) soon to aid the expansion/remodeling process further. The closest doctor to me knowledgeable in orthotropics (Dr. Geir Olsen in Norway) recommended me DNA or ALF.
I should mention that I get plenty of calcium and vitamin D through my diet and that I supplement with magnesium. Lately I have also started supplementing with Vitamin K2. I should also mention that I for large parts of the time have boosted my HGH levels naturally by applying intermittent fasting combined with hitting the gym in a fasted state. This might have factored in, on the other hand, perhaps it has not factored in at all. Perhaps the HGH gains I have seen have been negligible.
@krollic How would I be able to get my osteoclast/blast levels checked? I'm not sure about those, but I had my testosterone checked years ago and was told it was in the high range of normal.
Yeah, I tried heavy K2 supplementation in late 2016. It was 15mg a day for a few months, and like you, to fix cavities. I had several rotting teeth that kept getting worse despite my 24/7 obsession and trying everything; it turned out to be phantom acid reflux that mainly happened while asleep so I never knew about it. As a result, the K2 did nothing and I was aware of its bone remodelling capabilities back then, but saw no changes there either.
I think I saw the military post you're referring to, but I can't recall if I saw any real changes or not, unless we're talking about different posts. No, I don't do heavy working out right now. I did a lot of exercise (for me, anyway) for about 7 months, then quit it all and am just now getting back into doing some biking and walking. I don't call that an exercise program, it's just for the sake of moving more.
I do eat a lot of sugar and have for a few years, which may sound like a no-brainer as to why I'm not progressing, but my overall health was not much better when I ate a lot less of it. I gained over 50 pounds from SSRIs and only got into eating a lot of junk food after I lost all of the weight. Also, I have a twin brother who eats nearly the exact same foods as me and has a normal to decent face, so me being remorseful over not eating enough cow liver or other vitamin enriched foods may be misplaced.
You know you are mewing correctly by the following signs imo: gentle pressure in the maxilla, base and ridge of the nose, you feel pressure in your forehead just above the nose. This pressure should be even and continuous. Gains are made by continuous long term pressure on the bones, not by heavy short bursts of pushing with the tongue.
The physical training and the proper eating-sleeping-fasting is mainly there to create optimal conditions for your face to change. Other ppl who may have your intake of food and exercise levels may have been using semi proper tongue posture since childhood, so comparing yourself is pointless. From my understanding correcting inter-molar distance leads to adequate tongue posture, which then leads to continued widening of the pallet, straighter teeth, jaw adaptation and years later down the line changes in your cheek bones, eye support.
Imo stuff you need to find out:
1. Intermolar and inter canine distance, maybe you need widening before you can mew (I had braces and the inter-molar distance is 40 mm as my orthodontist widened it. I did not let her remove my teeth tho.)
2. Go to a dentist, have your teeth fixed, tartar removed. If you had braces before, make sure all the adhesive cement was properly cleaned from your teeth so nothing scratches or obstructs the tongue on the teeth (had this myself, went to the dentist, got everything cleaned up first)
3. See what is obstructing you from mewing correctly and then tacking that first
4. Do chin-tuck on the floor while mewing and posture correction: https://youtu.be/TQqgf8kB6R8
5. Always do proper swallow
6. If you are above 15% body-fat your face will look different, more chubby, less defined. Slim down, best done with weight lifting or calisthenics. Avoid excessive cardio as it creates cortisol (stress hormone) which makes you fat and lowers testosterone.
7. Sugar and carbs are crappy food, nowadays there is sugar in almost everything processed. ontop of this your body processes alcohol like sugar, so if you eat sugar, eat processed food and drink on top of that e_e you are heading towards diabetes and low testosterone chinletville.
Do you want to stay a chinlet? How badly do you want this and how intelligently you tackle it will determine the results.
@Ayla31 I don't think my neck is tense and my head should be balanced decently, as I spent many months correcting my head/neck and body posture to be able to sit and stand properly. My neck doesn't feel stiff, but my tongue usually feels strained in some way because I'm trying to make it do the posture it can't do naturally.
@Greensmoothies Looking at dystonia, I seem to match a few of the milder symptoms but the overall definition of it doesn't really line up with me much. It is interesting, though, I've never heard of it. I understand what "conversations" with people IRL about CFD can be like, using quotes because the other party barely participates and just wants to hand-wave it away. Almost nobody recommends making this into a permanent thing, I certainly don't, but I lost all of my weight through switching to a low carb diet for a few months. Not saying it's healthy or anything, though it worked very well.
@Rockyp33 I did check for a tongue tie a few months ago. I asked him to check again before leaving because I was so convinced I had one, but apparently not. He was the only doctor out of several who told me I had reflux, so I can't even cling to hope that he was incompetent and didn't look hard enough for the tie. That cheeky smile/swallow exercise does work for me every so often, but most of the time it doesn't. Maybe I'll practice it ad nauseum and see if heavy repetition helps.
@Dominik All of those symptoms of proper mewing are sensations I have had, it seems to be a problem of them being so ephemeral that I can replicate the same techniques a minute later and not feel anything. I know how to mew, but most of the time my body won't let me do it. My attempt at doing it is throughout the day, constantly, as opposed to forcing it for short periods and stopping.
1. My intermolar distance is already 40+ mm, palate width is absolutely not the problem. (frustratingly so, because that is apparently the common issue)
2. I found a fantastic dentist who fixed all of my refluxed teeth with very minimal invasive fillings, vs. others who said extraction was necessary. My teeth don't have any cement on them anymore, I haven't had braces since 2010.
3. I don't know what's obstructing me from mewing correctly, there's no tongue tie or severe posture problems I'm aware of. I'm about to set up a Rolfing appointment in case that can shed some light. The practitioner I asked about it said that Rolfing is starting at the bottom and cranial work (like osteopathy, though other specialists) is the final stage to repairing the body; that logic makes sense if I have a body problem that prevents me from fixing my skull on my own.
4. Will do.
5. At least for saliva and liquids, I've been properly swallowing for years. Swallowing food has always been difficult, even with incorrect swallowing, again disappointing that a tied tongue wasn't behind any of this.
6. I'm probably above 15% body fat, as I'm 'skinnyfat', but am only 5'7 and 130 pounds. I could lose a few pounds to match my tiny frame (yes, being the same weight or greater in muscle would be better than weighing less, I'm just trying to write a concise reply), but I've been slimmer than this and my face becomes taut enough to emphasize the bad structure and actually looks worse. Not knocking weight lifting, there are times I do it for months but my diet never follows and I get fed up of not getting results even though I know damn well why that is.
7. The diabetes I agree with, but how does losing testosterone in adulthood correlate with having a bad chin? My childhood diet was pretty good, all the while developing CFD. My test levels are normal and I haven't experienced a worse face than before from eating a lot of candy past puberty. It's not like I "don't have a chin", it looks weaker than in reality because it's not positioned correctly. At the very least, I don't drink alcohol. Almost nothing but water, actually, but I am well aware that what I eat is not healthy.
@Tast, no, I'm not from Turkey. Ayla is a character's name from a book series (about prehistoric times, neanderthals and cro-magnons).
@Rockyp33, the vagus nerve controls unconscious body functions, like heart rate, breathing, swallowing, etc. It signals the palatoglossus muscle, which origins from the soft palate/ head, to swallow, raising the posterior part of the tongue (and at the same time bringing the soft palate in contact with it). But it is not the only nerve involved in swallowing.
@PaperBag, while its not possible to have a free throat and tongue having a tense neck, it is possible to have a free neck and a tight throat.
When you place your tongue on your palate, are you aware of the lingual tonsils and palatine tonsils (in case you still have tonsils) and the soft palate and uvula being in touch together? And feeling the flow of air right behind them? That helps me and gives me feedback. As is learning to feel the flow of air flowing through my nostrils, all the paranasal sinuses (even tough there's not much space), behind the soft palate tongue, and through the trachea until the lungs. Sorry if that's too much anatomy, but I do think body awareness is a powerful feedback.
Also, where do you place the tip and blade of your tongue? if its the incisive papilla, maybe you could give the palatal rugae a try, behind the first ridge, just before the slope begins (or viceversa?).
Other than that I don't know how to help you... maybe you could try Myofunctional therapy?
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