Nothing, head posture is the effect of an underdeveloped maxilla, not the cause. Chin tucking will just impinge the internal jugular vein and airway. The force you feel from the tongue in a chin tuck is this impingement, you lack space in the back of the throat from a lack of forward growth, chin tucking exacerbates this lack of growth and jams the soft tissue together in the back of the throat.
there is one thing I notice when I am in this chin tucked position and that is that the tongue gets automatic to the palate, my chest gets up and my shoulders move back.
but think about it what if you have good tongue posture but really bad posture because you are sitting all day long and you are more on your phone than usual this could bring the tongue in a worse position in my opinion or do you think because the palate is flat in good cases this won't happen. After all, the palate isn't high.
You would fix your body posture (ATP, forward head posture etc) and expand the palate a bit, at least that what it did for me. But those days of easy gains are gone, now i have to push my tongue deliberately.
helmutstrebl apparently did what you have mentioned (in an extreme fashion) in the title and we all saw how it helped him. He didn't mention any discomfort or impingements btw. I've been doing the same for the past four months and I don't have any issues either, though there could be in the future if such an impingement actually occurs.
Helmut said he chin tucked so hard that it was hard to breathe, this is impingement, and I think that's completely unnecessary. When you chin tuck what you're doing is jamming all the soft tissue in the back of the throat together, this is why people report that when they chin tuck they feel the tongue push up on the roof of the mouth, this is a result of squishing the soft tissue in the back of the throat together because of a lack of forward growth.
Nothing, head posture is the effect of an underdeveloped maxilla, not the cause.
It's both, a classic chicken and egg situation. Poor posture will cause recession, but recession will make you have poor posture. One reinforces the other so in the end it doesn't matter which one came first.
Yes, I don't chin tuck, I think proper posture follows proper growth.
Chin tuck essentially is proper posture. It's just that 99% of people are so recessed that chin tuck is weird. Someone who has perfect forward growth has his had in a chin tuck all the time, except for him it doesn't feel as a chin tuck at all.
Think of it this way. Your head posture is on a continuum.
The more forward and counter clockwise rotation you have in your posture the less tongue force is being exerted. Try to crane your hesd forward and look upwards, you will notice it is impossible to push your tongue on the palate. In this case only gravity acts on your maxilla and deforms it.
The more backwards and clockwise rotation you have in your posture the more tongue force is being exerted. Try to pull your head back, lengthen your neck and tuck your chin. You will find your tongue (especially posterior third) automatically pushes against your palate with strong force without having to even put any effort into it. This might feel weird because the maxilla and other structures are undeveloped, but it is necessary to make progress.
If you just half ass it there will be no results, helmutstrebl and jamo both advocate this deep chintuck/skull rotation and they were the only ones who so far achieved very noticable progress.
Helmut said he chin tucked so hard that it was hard to breathe, this is impingement, and I think that's completely unnecessary. When you chin tuck what you're doing is jamming all the soft tissue in the back of the throat together, this is why people report that when they chin tuck they feel the tongue push up on the roof of the mouth, this is a result of squishing the soft tissue in the back of the throat together because of a lack of forward growth.
And that was only when he did extreme chin tucks with the aid of his fingers pushing the chin even more than usual. And impingement is harmful if it compresses nearby blood vessels or nerves, not something temporarily happening like airway obstruction (which is what seems to be happening in helmut's case).
For example, I can do the extreme chin tucks (I don't do this regularly btw, I only chin tuck in the Frankfurt plane) without any airway obstruction so saying the soft palate gets jammed in the back of the throat doesn't make sense. However, most mewers don't even do extreme chin tucks as far as I am aware so it's safe to assume that chin tucking isn't as harmful as you seem to be saying. Besides, there haven't been a single person who has reported that chin tucking has caused them long term problems and hundreds of people have been doing this for a while—that says something.
here’s some proof to our theory. This woman had joint replacement and DJS and her posture is almost perfect afterwards.
Is it just me or is she near a wall or something in the before pic which makes her crane her head a bit (since her ponytail isn't letting her keep her head straight)? In the after pic, she has her hair tied so she's able to pull her head back.
Nothing, head posture is the effect of an underdeveloped maxilla, not the cause.
It's both, a classic chicken and egg situation. Poor posture will cause recession, but recession will make you have poor posture. One reinforces the other so in the end it doesn't matter which one came first.
Yes, I don't chin tuck, I think proper posture follows proper growth.
Chin tuck essentially is proper posture. It's just that 99% of people are so recessed that chin tuck is weird. Someone who has perfect forward growth has his had in a chin tuck all the time, except for him it doesn't feel as a chin tuck at all.
Think of it this way. Your head posture is on a continuum.
The more forward and counter clockwise rotation you have in your posture the less tongue force is being exerted. Try to crane your hesd forward and look upwards, you will notice it is impossible to push your tongue on the palate. In this case only gravity acts on your maxilla and deforms it.
The more backwards and clockwise rotation you have in your posture the more tongue force is being exerted. Try to pull your head back, lengthen your neck and tuck your chin. You will find your tongue (especially posterior third) automatically pushes against your palate with strong force without having to even put any effort into it. This might feel weird because the maxilla and other structures are undeveloped, but it is necessary to make progress.
If you just half ass it there will be no results, helmutstrebl and jamo both advocate this deep chintuck/skull rotation and they were the only ones who so far achieved very noticable progress.
Nope, a friend of mine with really good facial development, pretty much model-like, can chin-tuck and he still looks like a turkey. So it's bullshit that chin-tuck is proper posture. Also if you ever seen non-recessed x-ray vs recessed, the different in projection of the mandible isn't that big. Some people have recessed faces and still well defined chins.
You can chin-tuck without ever exercising the deep cervical flexors, what good will that do to your posture? You'll just make hyoid muscles strong.
Nothing, head posture is the effect of an underdeveloped maxilla, not the cause.
It's both, a classic chicken and egg situation. Poor posture will cause recession, but recession will make you have poor posture. One reinforces the other so in the end it doesn't matter which one came first.
Yes, I don't chin tuck, I think proper posture follows proper growth.
Chin tuck essentially is proper posture. It's just that 99% of people are so recessed that chin tuck is weird. Someone who has perfect forward growth has his had in a chin tuck all the time, except for him it doesn't feel as a chin tuck at all.
Think of it this way. Your head posture is on a continuum.
The more forward and counter clockwise rotation you have in your posture the less tongue force is being exerted. Try to crane your hesd forward and look upwards, you will notice it is impossible to push your tongue on the palate. In this case only gravity acts on your maxilla and deforms it.
The more backwards and clockwise rotation you have in your posture the more tongue force is being exerted. Try to pull your head back, lengthen your neck and tuck your chin. You will find your tongue (especially posterior third) automatically pushes against your palate with strong force without having to even put any effort into it. This might feel weird because the maxilla and other structures are undeveloped, but it is necessary to make progress.
If you just half ass it there will be no results, helmutstrebl and jamo both advocate this deep chintuck/skull rotation and they were the only ones who so far achieved very noticable progress.
Nope, a friend of mine with really good facial development, pretty much model-like, can chin-tuck and he still looks like a turkey. So it's bullshit that chin-tuck is proper posture. Also if you ever seen non-recessed x-ray vs recessed, the different in projection of the mandible isn't that big. Some people have recessed faces and still well defined chins.
You can chin-tuck without ever exercising the deep cervical flexors, what good will that do to your posture? You'll just make hyoid muscles strong.
I fully agree about severe chin tucking not being proper posture. If anything, it can be used as a guide to see how recessed your face is without craning it out and reinforce real proper posture, which isn't as strict. Nobody walks around like a runway model in real life no matter how attractive they are, and runway models walk with more variance than that anyway. Standing straight and looking forward is common, but tucking their chin into the throat isn't because they would look worse. While attractive people are likely to have better posture, part of the way models walk and position their faces is to give off an air of superiority, as if they don't look at the crowd because they don't need approval and thus sell the products due to being perceived as cool. Models still have to be taught how to walk in a show, it's not as simple as "this model looks great and walks a certain way in their job, it must be everyone's natural posture". Attractive people who take purposely ugly photos for a joke still look like turkeys when overly tucking their chin.
Nothing, head posture is the effect of an underdeveloped maxilla, not the cause.
It's both, a classic chicken and egg situation. Poor posture will cause recession, but recession will make you have poor posture. One reinforces the other so in the end it doesn't matter which one came first.
Yes, I don't chin tuck, I think proper posture follows proper growth.
Chin tuck essentially is proper posture. It's just that 99% of people are so recessed that chin tuck is weird. Someone who has perfect forward growth has his had in a chin tuck all the time, except for him it doesn't feel as a chin tuck at all.
Think of it this way. Your head posture is on a continuum.
The more forward and counter clockwise rotation you have in your posture the less tongue force is being exerted. Try to crane your hesd forward and look upwards, you will notice it is impossible to push your tongue on the palate. In this case only gravity acts on your maxilla and deforms it.
The more backwards and clockwise rotation you have in your posture the more tongue force is being exerted. Try to pull your head back, lengthen your neck and tuck your chin. You will find your tongue (especially posterior third) automatically pushes against your palate with strong force without having to even put any effort into it. This might feel weird because the maxilla and other structures are undeveloped, but it is necessary to make progress.
If you just half ass it there will be no results, helmutstrebl and jamo both advocate this deep chintuck/skull rotation and they were the only ones who so far achieved very noticable progress.
Nope, a friend of mine with really good facial development, pretty much model-like, can chin-tuck and he still looks like a turkey. So it's bullshit that chin-tuck is proper posture. Also if you ever seen non-recessed x-ray vs recessed, the different in projection of the mandible isn't that big. Some people have recessed faces and still well defined chins.
You can chin-tuck without ever exercising the deep cervical flexors, what good will that do to your posture? You'll just make hyoid muscles strong.
I fully agree about severe chin tucking not being proper posture. If anything, it can be used as a guide to see how recessed your face is without craning it out and reinforce real proper posture, which isn't as strict. Nobody walks around like a runway model in real life no matter how attractive they are, and runway models walk with more variance than that anyway. Standing straight and looking forward is common, but tucking their chin into the throat isn't because they would look worse. While attractive people are likely to have better posture, part of the way models walk and position their faces is to give off an air of superiority, as if they don't look at the crowd because they don't need approval and thus sell the products due to being perceived as cool. Models still have to be taught how to walk in a show, it's not as simple as "this model looks great and walks a certain way in their job, it must be everyone's natural posture". Attractive people who take purposely ugly photos for a joke still look like turkeys when overly tucking their chin.
Chin-tucking properly is a good way to literally straighten your cervical spine out, but permanently chin-tucking is unlikely to do anything.
@ayla-mao yeah I think your right man I good friend of mine is 24/7 in a chin tucked position and he is really well developed and had never had braces also his body posture is perfect and he is like 6ft5
I know also that his mom was very aware of this because he needed to do the stretch routine every day
Pull hyoid downwards, pulls larynx and hyoid together. Makes you look like garbage. I have strong hyoid muscles, go look in my thread my hyoid position and distance between larynx-hyoid almost non-existent.
Ah ok i see, ive read your thread. IMO you are wrong on that, you should chin tuck asap for your neck and i think stronger hyoid speeds up the results bc its connected with tongue.
Ah ok i see, ive read your thread. IMO you are wrong on that, you should chin tuck asap for your neck and i think stronger hyoid speeds up the results bc its connected with tongue.
I already have strong hyoid muscles... Look at the thread, I said when I lay-down and lift my neck up, I use my hyoid muscles to do that, which is abnormal.
And that makes no sense to me, you do know the hyoid muscles depress the larynx and the hyoid right if you chin-tuck?
Man i dont know about the anatomy and i dont think anyone knows the mechanics of this TBH. We dont know how the upswing occurs (and wont know unless scientists will procur extensive research). We know one thing tho. Those who got results did 3 things: 1)chin tucked 2)hard mewed (at least periodicaly) 3)teeths slightly apart or minimal contact. They did some combination of things things, or all of them. I woudnt go against it.
Ive read your topic, and thats what i concluded: you have bad neck posture, you probaly dont engage your posterior third properly (because u cant unless you chin tuck to some degree, and YES it is normal to choke yourself cause we are all recessed). And i dont want to sound mean, this shit is hard to get properly. I strugle aswell and i know about it for some time now (1-2 years). Only recently it clicked. We all want to get better at this. Maybe im wrong, maybe not, but thats my honest opinion. Peace
Man i dont know about the anatomy and i dont think anyone knows the mechanics of this TBH. We dont know how the upswing occurs (and wont know unless scientists will procur extensive research). We know one thing tho. Those who got results did 3 things: 1)chin tucked 2)hard mewed (at least periodicaly) 3)teeths slightly apart or minimal contact. They did some combination of things things, or all of them. I woudnt go against it.
Ive read your topic, and thats what i concluded: you have bad neck posture, you probaly dont engage your posterior third properly (because u cant unless you chin tuck to some degree, and YES it is normal to choke yourself cause we are all recessed). And i dont want to sound mean, this shit is hard to get properly. I strugle aswell and i know about it for some time now (1-2 years). Only recently it clicked. We all want to get better at this. Maybe im wrong, maybe not, but thats my honest opinion. Peace
1) I can engage my tongue fully and been doing so for a long time.
2) Who are these people that got results from chin tuck? Because we barely have any documentation or proof of those changes, John Mew doesn't make people permanently chin-tuck and they get great results, I didn't chin-tuck and still had results in mew line and IMW, and fWHR(from chewing).
3) I do know the anatomy behind it, which is why I know that it doesn't matter how recessed you are, putting the root of your tongue upwards doesn't cause airway problems, it just doesn't. The palatoglossus muscle does not cause the tongue to fall backwards into the airway, if anything, it prevents the tongue from falling into the airway, and so does the genioglossus muscle.
4) Yes my neck posture is horrible.
5) Chin-tuck can be counter-productive if you use lower hyoid muscles to chin-tuck.
Which brings me to my final point, even if you progress with your mandible, if the hyoid is low, your face will still look recessed as hell.
And if your hyoid is high, a recessed mandible will still look good as long as the mandible length is decent.
Then there are cases like this which contradicts what @sinned seems to be saying. Even after the surgery, this girl seems to have a horrible neck posture.
Then there are cases like this which contradicts what @sinned seems to be saying. Even after the surgery, this girl seems to have a horrible neck posture.
I've been rewatching some movies lately and this scene from Neon Demon caught my eye.
Notice the difference in head posture and their forward growth, just goes to show you can't have good tongue posture without good head posture. Left is Elle Fanning, right is Abbey Lee Kershaw. You can check their pics online, Elle seems to also have a somewhat narrow palate, while Abbey has a quite wide one.
I've recently restarted my dedication to constant monitoring of tongue and head posture after 4 years of pretty lax commitment. I've noticed that my tongue almost never gets in that magic position where I can feel the pressure in my mid-face unless I'm also doing the head posture. To say retaining that position as much as possible would do nothing is a pretty bold denial, although since I usually get into this posture the easiest when laying against a few pillows, it feels more like the back of my neck is really straight compared to a full on chin tuck (because of the angle that I'm laying at), if that makes any sense. Whenever I try and do it when walking around, I look like a no-neck clown and my line of vision is pretty much straight to the ground, so I doubt that that is the ideal posture.
p.s. I made my account name when I didn't think I'd ever post; now I wish I chose something less idiotic
I've recently restarted my dedication to constant monitoring of tongue and head posture after 4 years of pretty lax commitment. I've noticed that my tongue almost never gets in that magic position where I can feel the pressure in my mid-face unless I'm also doing the head posture. To say retaining that position as much as possible would do nothing is a pretty bold denial, although since I usually get into this posture the easiest when laying against a few pillows, it feels more like the back of my neck is really straight compared to a full on chin tuck (because of the angle that I'm laying at), if that makes any sense. Whenever I try and do it when walking around, I look like a no-neck clown and my line of vision is pretty much straight to the ground, so I doubt that that is the ideal posture.
p.s. I made my account name when I didn't think I'd ever post; now I wish I chose something less idiotic
You can change your name in your account settings. As for your issue with head posture, try putting your palms below your ears and tilting your head up a bit until you can feel your sternocleidomastoids activate. Try to keep these muscles engaged whatever you are doing.
As for your issue with head posture, try putting your palms below your ears and tilting your head up a bit until you can feel your sternocleidomastoids activate. Try to keep these muscles engaged whatever you are doing.
Feels good to know that my head posture has been correct these past few months. :)
I've recently restarted my dedication to constant monitoring of tongue and head posture after 4 years of pretty lax commitment. I've noticed that my tongue almost never gets in that magic position where I can feel the pressure in my mid-face unless I'm also doing the head posture. To say retaining that position as much as possible would do nothing is a pretty bold denial, although since I usually get into this posture the easiest when laying against a few pillows, it feels more like the back of my neck is really straight compared to a full on chin tuck (because of the angle that I'm laying at), if that makes any sense. Whenever I try and do it when walking around, I look like a no-neck clown and my line of vision is pretty much straight to the ground, so I doubt that that is the ideal posture.
p.s. I made my account name when I didn't think I'd ever post; now I wish I chose something less idiotic
You can change your name in your account settings. As for your issue with head posture, try putting your palms below your ears and tilting your head up a bit until you can feel your sternocleidomastoids activate. Try to keep these muscles engaged whatever you are doing.
do you need to feel a stretch or do you need to feel it burn?
I've recently restarted my dedication to constant monitoring of tongue and head posture after 4 years of pretty lax commitment. I've noticed that my tongue almost never gets in that magic position where I can feel the pressure in my mid-face unless I'm also doing the head posture. To say retaining that position as much as possible would do nothing is a pretty bold denial, although since I usually get into this posture the easiest when laying against a few pillows, it feels more like the back of my neck is really straight compared to a full on chin tuck (because of the angle that I'm laying at), if that makes any sense. Whenever I try and do it when walking around, I look like a no-neck clown and my line of vision is pretty much straight to the ground, so I doubt that that is the ideal posture.
p.s. I made my account name when I didn't think I'd ever post; now I wish I chose something less idiotic
You can change your name in your account settings. As for your issue with head posture, try putting your palms below your ears and tilting your head up a bit until you can feel your sternocleidomastoids activate. Try to keep these muscles engaged whatever you are doing.
do you need to feel a stretch or do you need to feel it burn?
You should feel the SCMs bulge under your fingers.
Well speaking from own experience I wouldnt really be able to maintain 24/7 Chin tuck because when I tuck my chin the tongue pressure gets so insane I have to clench very hard or it feels like my palate will explode haha
I've been rewatching some movies lately and this scene from Neon Demon caught my eye.
Notice the difference in head posture and their forward growth, just goes to show you can't have good tongue posture without good head posture. Left is Elle Fanning, right is Abbey Lee Kershaw. You can check their pics online, Elle seems to also have a somewhat narrow palate, while Abbey has a quite wide one.
yeah that was what is was thinking but on the other hand, after doing it more and more it gets stronger and stronger and at some point it will balance out
